Your Views on Playlist Width [Archive]

Orange

11-06-2003, 07:25 PM

Hi,
I just want to get people's views on the width of most playlists.

I find them to be much, much too narrow. I list ARTIST -- ALBUM -- TITLE in my playlist and 99% of the skins for QCD can't display even the shortest listings in this format. The only skin that does it properly is AYLA, so that's the only skin I keep installed.

What are your views on this? Am I the only one who likes to list the album names in my playlist? Am I the only one who is bothered by the inability to use one of QCD's greatest functions?

I'm not bitching, I'm just curious.

Xymantix

11-06-2003, 08:50 PM

I think that different people like different widths depending on various factors. One of those is what font size is small enough to show a lot of information, but not small enough to make you have to squint to read it. The other thing is naming conventions, which is a case where you and I differ, for example. I don't care about album (CD?) names, so don't include that information in my naming conventions. When it's added into the names though, it can make for a really long song name that won't fit into most playlists out there now, which sounds like what you've run into. Last I recall it was said that some future version of QCD would have the option to have a resizable playlist, so when that comes to fruition you'll have a lot more skins to choose from!

chicubs

11-06-2003, 08:51 PM

There are plenty of skins that are wide enough...granted, some are too narrow, but I think its also that your album titles are unusually long or you used a custom fault that is wide.

krazyd

11-06-2003, 08:55 PM

Plasticized should be wide enough for you too...

You should try manually editing the skin, especially size / font type to something you like. I do this all the time when I like a skin but there is something little that I would like done differently.

regener8ed

11-06-2003, 09:07 PM

Young Twig

11-06-2003, 09:44 PM

threads and input i've received over the years leads me to believe that i dont place as high a priority on playlist size as the rest of the digital world. i use a playlist more for occassional maintenance than serious interactive information. i think that i now make more of a conscious effort to provide wider, longer and more useful playlist areas than i used to, since everyone else seems to want them.
Wow. I agree. O.G. has a horrible playlist. fiftytwo will not.

In all reality I don't give a crap about playlist size. Did you ever notice that when you hover over the track, it scrolls... :rolleyes:

Orange

11-06-2003, 10:10 PM

In all reality I don't give a crap about playlist size. Did you ever notice that when you hover over the track, it scrolls... :rolleyes:Of course I am aware of the fact that the playlist entry scrolls on mouseover. It's not very practical, when browsing through a huge playlist, to wait on the scroll just to see the track title.

There are plenty of skins that are wide enough...granted, some are too narrow, but I think its also that your album titles are unusually long or you used a custom fault that is wide.(1) I don't go out of my way to prefer albums with long titles. The artists name them, I listen to them.
(2) I do not change the skin's default font.

p.s.
Xymantix, while I don't use them due to my compulsive nature when it comes to track listings, your skins are awesome! Really impressive work, man.

Young Twig

11-06-2003, 10:12 PM

Of course I am aware of the fact that the playlist entry scrolls on mouseover. It's not very practical, when browsing through a huge playlist, to wait on the scroll just to see the track title.

(1) I don't go out of my way to prefer albums with long titles. The artists name them, I listen to them.
(2) I do not change the skin's default font.
I was being sarcastic... Hence the : rolleyes : smiley. I just don't care because there is a way to find out what song it is anyway.

chicubs

11-06-2003, 10:40 PM

(1) I don't go out of my way to prefer albums with long titles. The artists name them, I listen to them.

lol, i just mentioned it cause it seems odd that only 1 skin fits your needs. :)

Orange

11-06-2003, 10:53 PM

lol, i just mentioned it cause it seems odd that only 1 skin fits your needs. :)
:D There are a few others, but I just prefer that one.

I know I'm compulsive about it...I just can't help it. That's why I started this thread. I wanted to see if there was anyone out there that felt this way too. But it looks like I'm the only one with OCD in QCD. :)

Tokelil

11-07-2003, 12:37 AM

I think you got a good point. At least for some skins! (Most skins are fine IMO)
A skin like Nucleo Heel is damn nice but almost useless for me... :(

Hanzo

11-07-2003, 05:30 AM

I really don't care much about playlist size, I like the scrolling name feature on each track if the track name is too long.:D

However many people ask for the ability to resize the playlist and I guess they ask for it because they need it, so why don't make the people happy? It's on the skinners the challenge if the feature is to be added.

Qaz

11-07-2003, 08:18 PM

Hi,
I list ARTIST -- ALBUM -- TITLE in my playlist and 99% of the skins for QCD can't display even the shortest listings in this format.
How about listing them TITLE - ARTIST - ALBUM. You can still sort it by ARTIST - ALBUM - TITLE.
It doesn't remove the actual problem, but reduces the effect.

For me the playlist is wide enough, since I only care about Artist and title.

Paul

11-07-2003, 08:41 PM

Curious, what's more important: width or length? (for playlists that is)

chicubs

11-07-2003, 08:52 PM

Curious, what's more important: width or length? (for playlists that is)

You wanna make a poll?

Young Twig

11-07-2003, 09:20 PM

You wanna make a poll?
Width is more important to me. But I seriously don't care about it much.

Xymantix

11-07-2003, 10:39 PM

Curious, what's more important: width or length? (for playlists that is)

Both? We had a thread a while back and the consensus seemed to be that as long as a playlist showed about 15 songs or so then it didn't feel too cramped heightwise. Widthwise is another issue altogether, and is probably harder to agree on since there are so many different naming conventions.

Orange

11-08-2003, 12:44 AM

Curious, what's more important: width or length? (for playlists that is)
Unfortunately, my wife says both are important, Paul. ;)

But seriously folks;
I agree with Xymantix on the playlist length; as long as it displays about 15 tracks I'm fine with it. (I would not be opposed to a longer one though.)
As for the width, I prefer about 100 characters. But I seem to be nearly the only one who goes to this extreme.

How about listing them TITLE - ARTIST - ALBUM. You can still sort it by ARTIST - ALBUM - TITLE. It doesn't remove the actual problem, but reduces the effect.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, Qaz, but I don't believe this is possible in QCD at the moment. Unless, of course, you mean removing all my tag information and renaming 5,000+ mp3s...which...hehe...I'm not about to do.

maresias

11-08-2003, 05:54 AM

This is a thread of resizable playlist,in fact.

Suppose I made you,orange,a wide and long (4your wife) playlisted skin.

What would be the response that I'll get from a user who uses only file names (me) or only song title in playlist.(who?)...Forget the response,think of the usability.Forget the usability think of a user with 800x600 screen size and want to use the skin but want to use qcd also "on screen" but despite the width and height,eventough it's an open'n'closed one,he turns back to the base skin.

Example 3.B4:
Meat Loaf - Live in Brooklyn '95 - The Objects in The Rear View Mirror May Appear Closer
Brian Adams - Summer of '69

for this text above ,if we're stickin' to a unresizable playlist,then a Max playlist size that I'll ever draw in a skin would be up to The Rear part....

It's a dangerous effort and time-spend for the skinner also.For example now I'm working on a usable as possible 800x600 skin and I'm quite sure that skin count of it will be too low because only the interested users who are looking for a 800x600 skin will download it.

In physics we call this a question of relativity.In QCD forums we call this, a thread of resizable playlist.

drewkeller

11-08-2003, 06:24 AM

Unless, of course, you mean removing all my tag information and renaming 5,000+ mp3s...which...hehe...I'm not about to do. check out the godfather, it's really cool for renaming according to tag info.
http://users.otenet.gr/~jtcliper/tgf/ (http://users.otenet.gr/%7Ejtcliper/tgf/)

krazyd

11-08-2003, 06:52 AM

check out the godfather, it's really cool for renaming according to tag info.
http://users.otenet.gr/~jtcliper/tgf/ (http://users.otenet.gr/%7Ejtcliper/tgf/)
I've used TheGodfather to retag/rename/organize 9000+ ;) It's really easy.

Orange

11-08-2003, 08:37 AM

check out the godfather, it's really cool for renaming according to tag info.
http://users.otenet.gr/~jtcliper/tgf/
Thanks, but I like my files just the way they are...all nice and tidy. I'm not about to change my filenaming convention nor remove my ID3 Tags.

I think some people are misunderstanding this thread. I use Ayla, it works beautifully for me. The purpose of this thread is not for me to whine and bitch and say "Oh, help me. I don't know what to do about my playlists." I know what to do...I'm fine. I was just curious to see how many other people felt the same way I do about most skins' playlists being too narrow. :D And so far it appears that I am just way too anal...nobody else seems to care that much about it.

Everyone has their own tastes! That's what makes it interesting.

drewkeller

11-08-2003, 02:56 PM

I was just curious to see how many other people felt the same way I do about most skins' playlists being too narrow. :D And so far it appears that I am just way too anal...nobody else seems to care that much about it.
actually, i think a lot of people are concerned with the playlist area size. it's been brought up a lot recently. but i think it will be a moot point soon because it sounds like some sort of resizing feature will be implemented in QCD soon.

Orange

11-08-2003, 07:13 PM

Spidercrab

11-08-2003, 07:13 PM

actually, i think a lot of people are concerned with the playlist area size. it's been brought up a lot recently. but i think it will be a moot point soon because it sounds like some sort of resizing feature will be implemented in QCD soon.
A user resizeable playlist and medai library is really the only way to satisfy everyone on this issue. There are just so many uses for a media player and so many different ways to use and display the playlist information that a fixed format defined by the skinner can't possibly satisfy these requirements.

Matt

11-08-2003, 10:34 PM

regarding the width or height resizing I would say absolutely 100% BOTH. The reason one would resize a window is to display all information that they want to see (which differs from user to user) so, the size of the window should be whatever the end user is most comfortable with.

Restricting the playlist in either one direction seems like an unfinished solution and would result in lots of posts/emails like 'how come my playlist doesn't resize in X direction'.

MrZebra

11-08-2003, 11:08 PM

The way I see it, the skinning engine will probably be updated to support skins that can be expanded. Like a 3 part, the left, the right and the middle that will either be tiled or "Ping-Pong"-Style Repeating.

The best way would be to add a new setting for a skin extention that can make it either All Fixed, X Fixed Y Variable, X Variable Y Fixed, or All Vaiable.

If the middle (Repeated section) contains something like the track listing area in the playlist extention, it would therefore become bigger.

Or maybe a skin could contain multiple middle sections and they would each expand at the same time when the user resizes it.

Paul

11-08-2003, 11:34 PM

Restricting the playlist in either one direction seems like an unfinished solution and would result in lots of posts/emails like 'how come my playlist doesn't resize in X direction'.

And allowing both X and Y resize will result in lots of posts/emails like 'QCD's playlist is fat and slow when it's fully stretched. Make it faster or I'm going tell everyone how much you suck!'

(I feel funny responding to a post by Matt...)

Lich

11-08-2003, 11:50 PM

If there will be resizeability, it should be full. Not only a playlist, but global concept.
You say it will be resource consuming? Ho-ho, you deside what skin to use - with resizeable playlist ot not.

Personally for me resizing of main body / extensions is more important than playlist.

Hit me if I'm not right. Skinners unite!!!

chicubs

11-09-2003, 12:41 AM

Young Twig

11-09-2003, 12:47 AM

I think all resizing is unnecessary. I think QCD is fine how it is... IF you don't like it... SKIN IT! Hey, it'd make more skinners... :D

chicubs

11-09-2003, 12:59 AM

I think all resizing is unnecessary. I think QCD is fine how it is... IF you don't like it... SKIN IT! Hey, it'd make more skinners... :D

*cough* alpha-blending *cough*

Young Twig

11-09-2003, 01:10 AM

*cough* alpha-blending *cough*
I was thinking the same thing... There's been a lot of colds going on around here, too... :rolleyes:

drewkeller

11-09-2003, 06:09 AM

regarding the width or height resizing I would say absolutely 100% BOTH. ...the size of the window should be whatever the end user is most comfortable with.

Restricting the playlist in either one direction seems like an unfinished solution. And allowing both X and Y resize will result in lots of posts/emails like 'QCD's playlist is fat and slow when it's fully stretched. Make it faster or I'm going tell everyone how much you suck!' i'd have to go with Matt on this one. is this question any different than the resizable external visual? i think it's a trade-off that the user will just have to accept, but at least the choice would be there. resizing in only one direction is not natural.

just a thought, how about a solution similar to the visuals: external resizable playlist? (and also keep the skinner-defined area/size.) perhaps it could even have two modes: playlist mode and browse mode (sounds a bit like a media library, eh?) i think i'm getting too far ahead.

krazyd

11-09-2003, 07:35 AM

just a thought, how about a solution similar to the visuals: external resizable playlist? (and also keep the skinner-defined area/size.) perhaps it could even have two modes: playlist mode and browse mode (sounds a bit like a media library, eh?) i think i'm getting too far ahead.
This is exactly the solution I've always hoped for.

Paul

11-09-2003, 07:50 AM

This is exactly the solution I've always hoped for.

Most players these days have a plain, resizable, text-on-solid background playlist because it's fast to draw and easy to resize. I made the mistake long ago to allow a customizable, non-rectangular, bendable, transparent and flexable playlist. The problem being that it's slower to draw and harder to resize.

Right now I'm working on the possibility of having both (fancy and resizable), but, as is always the case, speed can be increased at the cost of memory, and vise-versa.

krazyd

11-09-2003, 10:52 AM

Most players these days have a plain, resizable, text-on-solid background playlist because it's fast to draw and easy to resize. I made the mistake long ago to allow a customizable, non-rectangular, bendable, transparent and flexable playlist. The problem being that it's slower to draw and harder to resize.

Right now I'm working on the possibility of having both (fancy and resizable), but, as is always the case, speed can be increased at the cost of memory, and vise-versa.
Thanks for the explanation, Paul. :)

The idea of having both seems best to me, because it would avoid the constraints of either. It would let skinners keep their playlists as an integral part of their skins and not break/make redundant current skins, while still letting those who want more control over their music see/organize their songs more easily.

I can't wait to see what you have in store for the next build! :D

Toe

11-11-2003, 02:41 AM

If you'll pardon a n00b for butting in, what I'm wondering is how you're planning to handle the resizing? Are you planning to stretch the images themselves, or just make certain areas/images repeat themselves as the window grows, like a background image on an HTML table cell? Stretching would be more powerful, but would probably be more taxing on the system. Tiling would probably be easier on resources (again, I don't know exactly what the relative impact would be), but doesn't allow quite as much in the way of "free form", like you'll never be able to have a nice oval-shaped design that's stretchable.

Still, I can think of lots of ways to push the boundries of a tiling system to give a more free-form feel (I'll share if anyone is interested). And looking over my installed skins, I could adapt almost all of their playlists to a tilable system. The most dificult skins I see are the ones with a playlist that's tightly integrated with the rest of the player AND is a odd shape, particularly like De Sol. I guess this is the skin author's choice part comes in. Backgrounds would be a bit thorny, but I can think of ways to make something like PRiZM's playlist scale nicely without stretching.

Orange

11-11-2003, 06:42 AM

Of course I'm not Paul, but I think it's safe to say that if/when playlists can be scaled they will use a tiling system. Just because, as everyone knows, stretching any sort of raster image gets butt-ugly real fast.

Xymantix

11-11-2003, 05:26 PM

Right now I'm working on the possibility of having both (fancy and resizable), but, as is always the case, speed can be increased at the cost of memory, and vise-versa.

This may be a bad idea, but what about taking a page out of the visuals book? Visuals allow the skinner to incorporate them into an area on the skin, but then the user can switch to an external vis that's in the resizable window. Would it make sense to have the current (fancy) playlist as is, but be able to switch to an external (resizable) one?

On that same thought, and I know this is a strech, it would be cool if I could play videos in the player OR in the external resizable window. IOW, I'd like to be able to watch a video in the vis section of a skin (for example) for those times where I'm not concerned about absolutely controlling the size. When I do want to control it, I could then switch to the external version in the resizable window.

krazyd

11-11-2003, 06:13 PM

This may be a bad idea, but what about taking a page out of the visuals book? Visuals allow the skinner to incorporate them into an area on the skin, but then the user can switch to an external vis that's in the resizable window. Would it make sense to have the current (fancy) playlist as is, but be able to switch to an external (resizable) one?
I thought this was what paul meant...?

Young Twig

11-11-2003, 08:44 PM