So what's the deal with Gracenote?

[Horacus]

Well, I found QCD and downloaded it.
When I started installation I was presented with the Gracenote license agreement. After reading it I had to pause and think about it.
It appears that QCD has a little dirty secret.
Gracenote is apperantly sending stuff out. That makes QCD spyware.
I don't like being lied to so I canceled the installation.
QCD download page says that QCD is no spyware but it appears it's not true.
From license:
"By using the software to create an mp3 or mp3PRO file, you agree that the Gracenote software may submit a SoundStamp to the Gracenote CDDB service. A Soundstamp(tm) is a short distillation of the sound-wave information in the music itself and helps the Gracenote CDDB service to identify artist and title information for digital music files. "
Oh well, the download page sounded too good to be true. And like the saying goes, if it sounds too good to be true, it usualy is.

[fatal error]

Suggestion:

1. go learn the real definition of spyware.
if this didn't work...

2. shut it off in preferences.

[Zayoos]

fatal error is right :)
This is a feature, not a spyware thing.

[#The fREaK!]

Most players, including Winamp, have the same Gracenote stuff.

[Tokelil]

To elaborate on what fatal error said, go to Preferences->Settings->Interne Connection and set it to I have no Internet. Gracenote wont be contacted then!

[acozz]

All that says is that CDDB will send some info to themselves to help identify it in the database. That's what CDDB is. Stop being so paranoid. They don't take your email address so they have no way of contacting you or giving it away to spammers.

[Horacus]

To elaborate on what fatal error said, go to Preferences->Settings->Interne Connection and set it to I have no Internet. Gracenote wont be contacted then!

It clearly states in the license that if I encode an mp3 then the gracenote "feature" will send a fingerprint of the sample whether I want it to or not.
Shutting off my Internet connection or lying to the software about my connection is not a solution in my opinion.
Spyware is whenever a software is sending data from my computer without my permission.
It's not the same as when I ask it to retrieve a CD info from Gracenote when I rip a CD.
I looked further into it and found out that Gracenote is a company that initialy promised to maintain a CD database but then stole it and went commercial, charging software developers license fees etc.
That's why freedb came to being and is used by many audio programs instead of Gracenote to look up CD info. So from that little research I deduced that Gracenote are the bad guys and freedb are the good guys.
So when a program like QCD comes with a Gracenote spyware and no freedb functionality then it looks like something stinks.
Anyway, it doesn't matter, I refused the license initially and after further reading on the Net I think I did the right thing.
I'm not telling anyone not to use QCD. It may very well be an excellent software. And many programs have spyware and still are being use by a lot of people, like Kazaa for example.
But I have a simple policy not to use anything that has "traditional" spyware built in (i.e. program sending info out secretely) or a program with features that transmit info from my computer and make me agree to it by accepting a license (I guess we could call it "modern spyware" ).

[chicubs]

It clearly states in the license that if I encode an mp3 then the gracenote "feature" will send a fingerprint of the sample whether I want it to or not.
Shutting off my Internet connection or lying to the software about my connection is not a solution in my opinion.
Spyware is whenever a software is sending data from my computer without my permission.
It's not the same as when I ask it to retrieve a CD info from Gracenote when I rip a CD.
I looked further into it and found out that Gracenote is a company that initialy promised to maintain a CD database but then stole it and went commercial, charging software developers license fees etc.
That's why freedb came to being and is used by many audio programs instead of Gracenote to look up CD info. So from that little research I deduced that Gracenote are the bad guys and freedb are the good guys.
So when a program like QCD comes with a Gracenote spyware and no freedb functionality then it looks like something stinks.
Anyway, it doesn't matter, I refused the license initially and after further reading on the Net I think I did the right thing.
I'm not telling anyone not to use QCD. It may very well be an excellent software. And many programs have spyware and still are being use by a lot of people, like Kazaa for example.
But I have a simple policy not to use anything that has "traditional" spyware built in (i.e. program sending info out secretely) or a program with features that transmit info from my computer and make me agree to it by accepting a license (I guess we could call it "modern spyware" ).

winamp uses it in the background...so...I dont know why you people complain anyway. Even if i did send song info. Who cares?! OH NO! Someone in Washington State knows what I listen to?! SAVE MY SOUL, LORD!...anyway its not spyware for the reasons listed by my fellow members above and there is a massive thread in the archives on this.

[#The fREaK!]

All the data that gets sent is anonymous, anyway.

[Heigar]

For your information I can monitor anything that is being sent from my computer through my firewall ,I have Qcd set to "no internet connection" and let me tell you that no information is sent anywhere with this option checked,and if that is not an option for you than I say it's your LOSS,there's not to many media players that don't install a bunch of extra crap or real spyware!

[Tokelil]

Anyone is free to make a freedb plugin. (I'll even send you the code to old one so you can fix it.)

Personnally I dont see the problem with Gracenote and I guess all Winamp users feel the same way. (And it would surprise me if Windows media player and Itunes doesn't send similar data.)

[acozz]

Anyone is free to make a freedb plugin. (I'll even send you the code to old one so you can fix it.)

Personnally I dont see the problem with Gracenote and I guess all Winamp users feel the same way. (And it would surprise me if Windows media player and Itunes doesn't send similar data.)

Can I get that code? Probably not going to update it but I want to see it.

[DeltaGuy]

Windows media player and Itunes doesn't send similar data.)
iTunes uses Gracenote, I believe...
Windows Media Player uses a "Special" Microsoft Product that acts similar to Gracenote, but offers a little more information on what track you're playing, and is probably more intrusive than Gracenote, we are talking about Microsoft here...

[fat squirrel]

the agreement states that no information about you or your computer is sent to gracenote. How is this spyware? in no way can it associate you or your computer to any data stored in it's database.

I dislike how people complain about QCD and gracenote... if anything i give QCD props for making it quite clear that it uses gracenote. Most apps just autoinstall it and never say anything about its existence until you see that little animation.

if you are unnecessarliy paranoid about gracenote...why not bitch about apps that use it and don't bother to tell you about it. QCD clearly states in the agreement what you're getting yourself into. Other apps (to keep anonimity) Win-blank... that's no good .. blank-Amp, don't mention a thing about gracenote in its agreements and just installs it without your knowledge. That I disagree with.

I think you need to educate your self a bit more before you start placing QCD in that horrible catagory.

for reference sake:

'A Soundstamp(tm) is a short distillation of the sound-wave information in the music itself and helps the Gracenote CDDB service to identify artist and title information for digital music files. A Soundstamp does not contain any information about you or your computer, and computing the Soundstamp should have no noticeable effect on the performance of your computer. '

[brian]

Could someone please enlighten me as to why Gracenote wants to have anonymous information about what tracks people are playing in the first place? It may seem obvious, but it isn't to me. I have no particular objection to it.

[Toe]

Spyware is whenever a software is sending data from my computer without my permission.
In other words, you're willing to grant permission to a program to send information about the music on your computer to freedb, but you're not willing to grant permission to a program to send information about the music on your computer to Gracenote. Why?

It's not the same as when I ask it to retrieve a CD info from Gracenote when I rip a CD.
I fail to see the distinction. In either case, it's sending information about your music to a remote server. It can be either the unique codes stored inside a CD, or a 'fingerprint' of a waveform, in both cases it's a way of identifying a track/album. A rose is a rose, no matter what you call it. And with any of these, you're free to turn it off - unlike with real spyware you aren't denied that ability.

It clearly states in the license that if I encode an mp3 then the gracenote "feature" will send a fingerprint of the sample whether I want it to or not.
So who is holding a gun to your head to use QCD to encode MP3s? First and foremost QCD is a music player. IMHO using QCD as an encoder is in most cases silly, there's many better progs out there for handling that. Use the right tool for the job - QCD is the right tool for playing.

I looked further into it and found out that Gracenote is a company that initialy promised to maintain a CD database but then stole it and went commercial
Let me get this straight, Gracenote invented and housed a database, and then stole it. From who, themselves? :rolleyes:

charging software developers license fees etc. <snip> I deduced that Gracenote are the bad guys and freedb are the good guys.
So one charges developers to use their service and one doesn't. I suppose there's a certain feel-good factor about using the free service, but this is hardly justification for calling Gracenote "bad guys". Have you ever considered that compensating people for the use of their creations might be a good thing? QCD may be a free program, but running a site like quinnware.com sure as hell ain't free.

[Tokelil]

IMHO using QCD as an encoder is in most cases silly, there's many better progs out there for handling that. Use the right tool for the job - QCD is the right tool for playing.I agree. I havent even tried the encoder yet...

Im wondering, does Winamp pay to use Gracenote?

[DeltaGuy]

QCD may be a free program, but running a site like quinnware.com sure as hell ain't free.
I'm sure the bandwidth costs are enormous, unless Paul or Matt own their own server...
And this was mentioned in another thread...
Does Gracenote support QCD development?

gracenote "allows" (supports?) paul to develop QCD
however, there is a freedb plugin available
Is this quote correct or incorrect???

[chicubs]

yes there is a freedb plugin but it needs to be updated...look earlier in this thread.

[Tokelil]

Does Gracenote support QCD development?
Kind of. Paul works for Gracenote so...

For more informations read this interview with The Great Paul (Too bad search doesn't work in the old forum... :( ):
http://www.pctechtalk.com/view.php?id=1278

[chicubs]

Kind of. Paul works for Gracenote so...

For more informations read this interview with The Great Paul (Too bad search doesn't work in the old forum... :( ):
http://www.pctechtalk.com/view.php?id=1278

EDIT: Nevermind, the link didnt work the first time, but try, try, try, again.

[Hanzo]

EDIT: Nevermind, the link didnt work the first time, but try, try, try, again.
The link works for me just fine.

In my opinion, Gracenote is as good as FreeDB and there should not be any kind of labeling going on as which one is bad and which one is good. Either serve a purpose and if you don't like Gracenote, you have the option to disable it. Plain and simple. Spyware? I don't think you've ever had the chance to deal with a real spyware program.

The information sent to Gracenote is not identifiable. It's annonymous, will they track and sell your email? How??? did you provide your email when installing the player? You should think before doing such comments on this forum. QCD is not spyware.

[DeltaGuy]

I did a little Whois searching, and this is what I found. Basically, Gracenote supports us by providing server space and bandwidth to host the QCD website. Here's mySource (http://reports.internic.net/cgi-bin/whois?whois_nic=quinnware.com&type=domain)...

[tristure]

It's funny to see this debate about QCD being spyware periodically reappear...
As I already stated once, my personal opinion is that even if you consider that gracenot stuff as spyware, it DOES add a nice feature to QCD. I like to have good tags in my files ; and the cddb query is a good way to save time : the tracks get automatically tagged, I just check the info out and make a correction now and then if I notice an error...
If you don't bother with tags however, it's obvious that this is useless... But then you could turn it off, it's easy in the preferences.

So even if this was "spyware", i'd qualify this by "friendly and useful spyware". It's relevant to have this feature in an audio player.

Just make a comparison with other programs : for instance if you install a recent divx codec, you'll get some other programs installed (gator) which most of the time you don't want. They provide no useful service, especially no feature concerning video playing or encoding. So they're basically irrelevant because having no real logical connection with what you want to do ; and if you remove them, you won't be able to encode anymore because the codec checks that the files are on your computer before starting to work...
You get approximately the same problems with Kazaa.

So to me the question of spyware is not very interesting. Instead you should examine the following questions:
-Does this thing add a feature to the program?
-Do I need that feature?
-Can I turn it off easily without preventing my program to work?

To me the answers are yes, yes, yes. So I keep the cddb query and I'm happy with it.
I can't imagine that someone could answer no to the third (especially someone having read this thread!!! The whole "procedure" is explained!).
So if the answers are no, no, yes for you, well, just turn this off! Where's the point?

[Tokelil]

Good post tristure! I couldn't agree more!!

[ace2701]

Good post tristure! I couldn't agree more!!
I second that. At work, I'm always checking my stations for spyware with ad-aware and spybot. There has never been any indication of spyware related to QCD. Also, since I do not use CDDB, it's a simple matter to disable it in the properties > settings > plug ins > libraries. Uncheck CDDB services.

[Hanzo]

I second that. At work, I'm always checking my stations for spyware with ad-aware and spybot. There has never been any indication of spyware related to QCD. Also, since I do not use CDDB, it's a simple matter to disable it in the properties > settings > plug ins > libraries. Uncheck CDDB services.
I have to agree with that too. If you ever encounter lop.com or something similar, then give me a call.

QCD is not spyware, nor the Gracenote component can be classified as spyware.

[jawpr]

I second that. At work, I'm always checking my stations for spyware with ad-aware and spybot. There has never been any indication of spyware related to QCD. Also, since I do not use CDDB, it's a simple matter to disable it in the properties > settings > plug ins > libraries. Uncheck CDDB services.

Ace - I use spybot all the time and love it. I just wondered how much CPU it uses when you run it? On my system, it pulls almost 100% when I am running it and I just wondered if something was wrong. If it doesn't pull that much on your system, do you have any idea what could be wrong with mine? Thanks.
Using spybot and spyblaster, it keeps my system completely clear of all spyware and adware.

[ace2701]

Ace - I use spybot all the time and love it. I just wondered how much CPU it uses when you run it? On my system, it pulls almost 100% when I am running it and I just wondered if something was wrong. If it doesn't pull that much on your system, do you have any idea what could be wrong with mine? Thanks.
Using spybot and spyblaster, it keeps my system completely clear of all spyware and adware.
Never checked until I read your post. Just did on my NT machine at work (can't do it at home on W98SE), and - you are right! 100% CPU usage. However, since it never gave me any trouble, I just disregard the readout.

[jawpr]

Never checked until I read your post. Just did on my NT machine at work (can't do it at home on W98SE), and - you are right! 100% CPU usage. However, since it never gave me any trouble, I just disregard the readout.
Thanks, Ace - Do you use Spyblaster also?

[ace2701]

Thanks, Ace - Do you use Spyblaster also?
Nope.. just spybot and ad-aware.