Canadian musicians form own lobby group

[acushla]

Avril Lavigne, Sarah McLachlan, Sum 41 and Broken Social Scene are among a group of Canadian musicians united to form a new politically-motivated alliance. Read it here: http://www.cbc.ca/story/arts/national/2006/04/29/musicians-coalition.html

Not surprisingly the main issue surrounds the downloading of music...here the artists basically want to say it is OK for the public to download their tunes.

My question is this: The major record labels, when signing a group/individual, then provides access to multi-million dollar studios, the creme de la creme of engineers, mixers, producers, graphic departments, distribution networks, media appearances and whatever else you want to add to that which comprises the music industry today.

Why do they do it? To make money, duh. If the very same artists who are being signed then turn around and tell people 'Hey...it's OK...go ahead and download our music'...why would the music business continue to sign bands/individuals?

This will never happen, of course, but the logical outcome of this scenario would be the end of the music 'business'. It's called 'business' for a reason.

[jkrzok]

A Couple of points. First, given the recording industry's history of screwing over the artist I'm not surprised to see some payback. It's long overdue.

Second. As the recording industry so screws over their artists, it is no wonder that artists make the easy majority of their income from touring. This is true for both high price artists like Paul McCartney and U2 and smaller acts. Add the merchandise sales at a concert and the take is even richer for the artist.

Recording is now seen by many artists as supporting the tour; a successful album will sell tickets. In the past the reverse was true; an artist would tour to boost record sales. So if it's true that recordings help sell tickets, as more music is downloaded more tickets are sold. And none of that revenue goes to the recording company.

Lastly, the recording industry is a growing irrelevancy in the production of music. I remember reading in 1985 or so that it would cost some US$200 to reproduce the recording studio the Beatles used to record Sgt Pepper. All products were easily available at your local Radio Shack.

Fast forward twenty years to today. You are reading this post an a machine many orders of magnitude more powerful than anything John Lennon or Paul McCartney ever dreamed of using to record Sgt Pepper back in 1967. With the right recording software and well-chosen equipment an artist can record a track in their basement without any financial support from the recording industry and get professional results.

My neighbors are in fact a rock band with a recording studio in their basement. With college-student part-time money they have created a studio in their basement. The results I have heard are technically as satisfactory as those achieved in a industry sponsored studio. I will not however vouch for their actual artistic merit.

No, the last real role for the recording industry is as a distributor of music. And I would limit even that to say that their last real role is as distributors of music in a physical form. If an artist wants to see their music widely sold in a record stores they will need a record company.

But as for alternative, electronic means of distributing music, the recording industry hardly seems necessary, now does it?

[acushla]

No, the last real role for the recording industry is as a distributor of music. And I would limit even that to say that their last real role is as distributors of music in a physical form. If an artist wants to see their music widely sold in a record stores they will need a record company.

But as for alternative, electronic means of distributing music, the recording industry hardly seems necessary, now does it?
'Screwing Over' is in the eye of the beholder...which is not to suggest it isn't done. Just not as widespread as some might have us believe. When it comes to 'screwing over' I don't believe the record companies hold the only key to that door.

All (most) of your points are well taken and after reading them I feel there is one area you did not address...and which I only mentioned in passing, namely Media Appearances...Television spots (Late night with...etc). Who is it that organizes the concert venues and touring schedules (I'm asking because I do not know)...who handles the publishing rights to the music...who signs off when so and so wants to do a cover of your hit song on their next album...who collects and sends you a cheque for CD's (or electronic downloads...BUT WAIT...didn't we just say that people can download our music for free?) you just sold in Japan?

Surely the 'framework' of all that is involved in the operation of a smooth and LARGE undertaking that 'successful' music is requires a well organized machine to make it all work.

The Band in the garage may well be able to produce a superior recording to the Sgt. Pepper's album but I sure as hell would like to know how they are going to be pressing it, distributing it, collecting that money from Japan while they are on tour. That would be one very large band.

Of course, you're right...giving away the music for free would just leave us with the demands of touring to worry about.

[cudelleirbag]

Need to add that artist aren't making much money out of CDs.
They do alot more with T-shirt, shows, and other derived products.

Also many bands would make much better music if they didn't have the freaking music producer telling them how to make music.
Why would artists care about these control freaks?

CL

[Todd The Kiwi]

do you guys honestly think bands create music because they just like to
and not because it's an 'easy' way to make money ?

Avril Lavigne, Sarah McLachlan, Sum 41 and Broken Social Scene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs)

[madjo]

Well, do you people think it is okay for the big labels to sue the music fans?
RIAA sueing families who don't own a computer, because they alledgedly shared music online...

Do you think that the atrosities that are copyright laws today, are okay?
Do you think that our right to "fair use" should be trampled by people who don't give a thing of what rights we have? (Sony with their rootkit issues).

Perhaps these artists don't form this alliance completely unselfishly or altruistically, but at least they are willing to stand up for their fans!

We should NEVER (and I repeat NEVER) lie down and let big corporations and cartels screw us over. The government already seem to be run by big corporations, should we let them continue to do that?

I would like to point out what could happen, by pointing to the new DMCA that is being formed in the US... where even owning a copy of a DVD-ripper or Alcohol 120% is punishable with prisontime. (and if you look at it more closely, you will see the greedy paws of the MPAA and the RIAA all over it) US Congress rolling over, and letting their tummies rubbed by those cartels.

*edit* to tag on:
If it is up to the music cartels, something like this would be illegal:
http://www.quinnware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5735

[acushla]

Well, do you people think it is okay for the big labels to sue the music fans?
Devil's Advocate.

Why do we think it's OK for you to call the Police when your neighbour enters your domain and takes a cup of sugar...or a diamond ring? RIAA suing a family who do not own a computer to download music just seems to prove that the world is not a perfect place. Sort of like when I open a CD case and I find 2 copies instead of 1. Mistakes are a fact of life.

Whether you think the copyright laws are 'okay' or not is not the issue. They are the law. As for 'our rights'...whose to say what's fair to who?

Funny how everybody is so quick to cry foul when Corporations are perceived to be 'screwing us over' yet strangely silent in praising the things they do well. Too busy playing your Nintendo (or like) perhaps? Or off to the supermarket in your car (or Nike's) to buy all your food and medical needs? Funny this idea that we are somehow 'owed' something...where did that begin?

A proposal that owning a DVD-RIPPER will result in jail terms is news to me...although I wouldn't be surprised at all if that concept was contained in a proposal...IT WOULD NEVER PASS...there are so many reasons why...think about the FBI warning before any film. Name me one person who has actually been charged under that law...unless you are a illegal DVD production operation selling thousands and thousands of copies. These are the people that are of real concern.

I've always maintained that entertainment is not a 'right'...if somebody makes something and puts a price tag on it it is then your right to either buy it or not. PROFIT...no matter how obscene your Socialist/Communist leanings find it, in a free enterprise system IS NOT A CRIME. End of story.

I download lots of music and video, in Canada it happens to be legal but even if it became illegal I would still download...so I come from no moral high ground.

However, I am also an artist (photographer) and in Canada when I sell an image to a ad-firm that client is able to use the image for very specific purposes...if those boundaries are exceeded and all of a sudden the image is being used in other areas or sold to third parties...Canadian law provides for very heavy fines and financial compensation to me...the artist.

I recognize that my feelings about my 'art' being distributed without my consent or financial compensation are exactly the same that the music industry must feel about their 'product' being downloaded for free.

In the end all I can really suggest is that the music/video lover is blessed by living in a time when they are able to download so much of this for free...and that the music/video industry is in the unfortunate position of having technology throw a serious kink into their marketing strategy.

[Willow of Oz]

do you guys honestly think bands create music because they just like to
and not because it's an 'easy' way to make money ?

Avril Lavigne, Sarah McLachlan, Sum 41 and Broken Social Scene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs)

Er, some make music because they want to, some for money. Is that a wrong answer because it's the obvious answer?
Singer-songwriters should at least get *some* respect, or at least the benefit of the doubt. And no one decides to create a True Norwegian Black Metal band with the intent of making millions and retiring in Fiji at the ripe old age of 25.

[Todd The Kiwi]

it's an easy way to make money...

Fijian black metal, man that would sound freaky
that tribal drumming is pretty wicked, i like it.

[rorythedog]

it's an easy way to make money...

Fijian black metal, man that would sound freaky
that tribal drumming is pretty wicked, i like it.

So when can we expect to hear you roaring up the charts then?

[acushla]

it's an easy way to make money...

Fijian black metal, man that would sound freaky
that tribal drumming is pretty wicked, i like it.Obviously you are not a member of a band.:)

[Roj]

Avril Lavigne, Sarah McLachlan, Sum 41 and Broken Social Scene are among a group of Canadian musicians united to form a new politically-motivated alliance.
Saw this on CDFreaks a week ago and commented on it then.

So, we tossed out the evil RIAA (CRIA is the thinly disguised front thereof). We reaffirmed our disdain of DMCA and DRM (big surprise, again another evil American invention tossed out by Canadians). The artists have obviously realized that you have to give a little to get a little - a typically Canadian compromise and very valid. Finally, it's not likely that any copyright reform will happen any time soon - the Conservatives are up to their necks and treading water frantically.

It's good to see Canada go its own way and not follow in the path of stupidity - yet again.

Oh, and no we no longer need the recording industry. This is the twenty first century. Artists can distribute their work and promote themselves using the largest public communications medium to ever exist on this planet. In the face of that, the recording industry is finally seen for the greedy Orwellian vulture that it is.

[Roj]

A proposal that owning a DVD-RIPPER will result in jail terms is news to me...although I wouldn't be surprised at all if that concept was contained in a proposal...IT WOULD NEVER PASS...
Rubbish.

What the Hell do you think DMCA is?

Why do you think 3-2-1 Software was forced to go out of business?

Why do you think one of the primary makers of movie copying software is based in the CARIBBEAN where they can't be touched by the Thought Police from a certain country to the immediate south of us?

Have you been asleep for the last five years?

Those twits south of the border have already passed similar and worse things into law (and continue to do so with every passing day). There is continual pressure from south of the border "urging" us to pass similar legislation. Fortunately, we have a backbone up here and persist stubbornly in not doing do. Other countries simply roll over and cave.

Get the silly-assed rose colored glasses off and join the rest of us in the real world - we're right next door to a living embodiment of Orwell's 1984 and the sheep there do absolutely nothing to protect themselves.

[WHAT?]

Sure, it's time for a change. But they don't get "pay" for just the CD distribution alone. It's true that the vehicle to market is changing, however should we not have compensation for promoting, marketing, presentation, etc. Plus royalties.

4 1/2% is down from what? 7% was it? But that's just the artist's take right? Everybody wants their pie share.
I'm not saying I like it! I'm not saying it's the right portions of the pie!
I'm just saying that for now, it's not as a perfect setup for them as it was with physical deliveries, and they don't know exactly how to adjust.
Obviously the artist are thinking that they too are getting slighted.

EDIT: I bet that percussionist BUN E. CARLOS is behind this lastest push!

[WHAT?]

Rubbish.

Have you been asleep for the last five years?



He he he!

[WHAT?]

and the sheep there do absolutely nothing to protect themselves.
Hey! :o :hurt:
I resemble that remark!!! ;)

[rorythedog]

This is a thread about absolutely fu*k all! Who cares! Steal it all. Let the dice fall as they will.

I suspect the record industry will still exist, only they'll be punting Pop Idol pish that enough idiots will buy to keep them afloat! Who gives a fu*k! I download everything first and, based on merit, I buy the occasional album. What's wrong with that?

[Roj]

I download everything first and, based on merit, I buy the occasional album. What's wrong with that?
Not a damn thing. I do the same with monotonous regularity. :)

[idefiXX]

You're both arrested !
:silly:

[madjo]

I know you played the devils advocate, but you've just hit all of my buttons, I need to vent this, otherwise I might not get it out of my system.

Why do we think it's OK for you to call the Police when your neighbour enters your domain and takes a cup of sugar...or a diamond ring? RIAA suing a family who do not own a computer to download music just seems to prove that the world is not a perfect place.
Yeah, and you getting arrested for trespassing ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY. The world isn't a perfect place.. I thought _I_ was the pacifist?

Whether you think the copyright laws are 'okay' or not is not the issue. They are the law. As for 'our rights'...whose to say what's fair to who?
Fair use is part of said law, and it is being ignored by the corporate world!

Funny how everybody is so quick to cry foul when Corporations are perceived to be 'screwing us over' yet strangely silent in praising the things they do well.
I'd be the first in line to praise any of them, if they EVER did something good.

Too busy playing your Nintendo (or like) perhaps? Or off to the supermarket in your car (or Nike's) to buy all your food and medical needs?
That means indeed paying for it.. and I pay for my bloody music, but I do not want to pay for crap that breaks my computer, I did not pay for that...

Funny this idea that we are somehow 'owed' something...where did that begin?
where did I say ANYTHING about that they owe us?
I did not do such thing... I merely stated that they are trampling our fair use, and rights!

A proposal that owning a DVD-RIPPER will result in jail terms is news to me...although I wouldn't be surprised at all if that concept was contained in a proposal...IT WOULD NEVER PASS...there are so many reasons why...think about the FBI warning before any film. Name me one person who has actually been charged under that law...unless you are a illegal DVD production operation selling thousands and thousands of copies. These are the people that are of real concern.
Watch and shiver... they are planning that bill, it is already in congress. Who is there to stop it? The government is afraid of technology, and doesn't understand it... so why would they oppose? There is nothing wrong with someone 'protecting their rights' is there?
Well in this case, you wouldn't even be able to backup your tapes/dvds of your daughters first steps, because owning such piece of software is a criminal offence.

I've always maintained that entertainment is not a 'right'...if somebody makes something and puts a price tag on it it is then your right to either buy it or not. PROFIT...no matter how obscene your Socialist/Communist leanings find it, in a free enterprise system IS NOT A CRIME. End of story.
INdeed, and I don't approve of sharing music online.. but that is beside the point.. the point is that music fans are getting screwed over by these large corporations... THAT is my point!

I download lots of music and video, in Canada it happens to be legal but even if it became illegal I would still download...so I come from no moral high ground.
Well, where do you get those music? Uploading it IS illegal.. So you are getting contraband media.

However, I am also an artist (photographer) and in Canada when I sell an image to a ad-firm that client is able to use the image for very specific purposes...if those boundaries are exceeded and all of a sudden the image is being used in other areas or sold to third parties...Canadian law provides for very heavy fines and financial compensation to me...the artist.double standards are a b*tch aren't they? Sure I'm allowed to download music, but woe on those who 'steal' my art!

I recognize that my feelings about my 'art' being distributed without my consent or financial compensation are exactly the same that the music industry must feel about their 'product' being downloaded for free.how about buying a cd? and getting your computer hit by rootkits and other such dangerous devices?
Or buying that new game, and suddenly be unable to burn your collection of photos to a dvd, because of the Starforce copyright protection that came with the game?

In the end all I can really suggest is that the music/video lover is blessed by living in a time when they are able to download so much of this for free...and that the music/video industry is in the unfortunate position of having technology throw a serious kink into their marketing strategy.
The music/video industry should learn from their mistakes, and NOT sue or screw over their customers (or moo-cows as they see them). Someone has to break this vicious circle... and I've done my best, I've stopped downloading/uploading copyright-protected music and other types of copyright-protected media long ago...

I'll stick to copyleft and Creative Commons media. Or media released by the bands themselves.

There is one thing to remember.. in the history, the companies that were protecting their stuff too much, were the ones to bite the dust, and the companies that were more lenient were the most profitable.

[madjo]

I want to add one other thing.. there are many scary things coming out of the US Congress.. (or are about to come out of it).
If/When this bill comes out, the FCC will hold supreme ruling on all inventions regarding media devices. Nothing can be invented, unless approved off by the FCC (and of course the media conglomerates behind it).

[Antman]

I have ~50 gig of MP3s. Most of these were downloaded with P2P software. Most of the downloaded songs are replacements from albums that I have purchased, some more than once. I have a subscription to an MP3 site. I have purchased CDs of some of the MP3s I downloaded. When I was a kid, I stole more than one LP from the record store.

My point:
Since I am buying license to the music (right to listen), why do I have to pay full price for a replacement CD?

Prove that I did not purchase the CD/license in the first place. Victims of the RIAA should get a better attorney.

Aside - I just paid my attorneys another $4000 for a case we are pursuing. I am almost $30,000 into this ordeal, and I am the plaintiff. I should have just shot the bugger!

[acushla]

Rubbish.



Why do you think 3-2-1 Software was forced to go out of business?

The reason that 3-2-1 Software was forced to go out of business has little relevance to you or I owning a DVD ripper.

This reminds me of the beginning of the Video age when their was a lot of 'talk' about banning Video machines. And we all know how that turned out.

As a side note...'the Conservatives are up to their necks and treading water frantically.' In your dreams.

[acushla]

Who cares! Steal it all. This is as honest a statement I am ever likely to read on this subject.

Kudos.

[acushla]

I want to add one other thing.. there are many scary things coming out of the US Congress.. (or are about to come out of it).
If/When this bill comes out, the FCC will hold supreme ruling on all inventions regarding media devices. Nothing can be invented, unless approved off by the FCC (and of course the media conglomerates behind it).I'll make you a promise madjo...if that was to ever happen then I will grovel and beg forgiveness from everyone who has read any of my posts...provided that when it doesn't come to pass everyone promises to apologize to me for all of your paranoid delusions and fear mongering.

Deal?:foureyes: :)

[rorythedog]

Pardon me but you've got your priorities all fu@ked up! You really see what you're listening to as in any way important? You're all insane.

[madjo]

The reason that 3-2-1 Software was forced to go out of business has little relevance to you or I owning a DVD ripper.

This reminds me of the beginning of the Video age when their was a lot of 'talk' about banning Video machines. And we all know how that turned out.

As a side note...'the Conservatives are up to their necks and treading water frantically.' In your dreams.
http://www.chillingeffects.org/
http://www.eff.org/
http://www.ipaction.org/ (<-- why would such a political lobby group for the digital culture even be needed?)

[madjo]

Pardon me but you've got your priorities all fucked up! You really see what you're listening to as in any way important? You're all insane.
I prefer to have rights next to my obligations... instead of only obligations.

[Roj]

The reason that 3-2-1 Software was forced to go out of business has little relevance to you or I owning a DVD ripper.

So now you're pleasding stupidity?

DVD Xcopy Platinum IS a DVD ripper. It was outlawed by DMCA. The US wants us to pass DMCA. What part of this progression escapes you?

This reminds me of the beginning of the Video age when their was a lot of 'talk' about banning Video machines. And we all know how that turned out.

The entertainment industry didn't own the US lock, stock and barrel then.

As a side note...'the Conservatives are up to their necks and treading water frantically.' In your dreams.

You're right - they're sinking. See your alternate thread.

Next...

[Roj]

I'll make you a promise madjo...if that was to ever happen then I will grovel and beg forgiveness from everyone who has read any of my posts...provided that when it doesn't come to pass everyone promises to apologize to me for all of your paranoid delusions and fear mongering.

Deal?:foureyes: :)
I've bought the popcorn and the soda pop. Have you bought the kneepads yet?

This should be MOST entertaining.

[Todd The Kiwi]

where do i buy tickets :P

[acushla]

I've bought the popcorn and the soda pop. Have you bought the kneepads yet?

This should be MOST entertaining.The point you don't understand is this: Until these concerns become laws then you are not right, and until those concerns become laws I am not wrong.

[acushla]

The reason that 3-2-1 Software was forced to go out of business has little relevance to you or I owning a DVD ripper.

So now you're pleading stupidity?

DVD Xcopy Platinum IS a DVD ripper. It was outlawed by DMCA. The US wants us to pass DMCA. What part of this progression escapes you?

Again, you miss the point: 3-2-1 were a manufacturing company that were selling DVD rippers on the open market. That is why they were shut down by the Entertainment Business. Whether you agree with it or not has nothing at all to do with the Californian courts decision...the law was clear about this issue, 3-2-1 choose to ignore it and paid the price. They broke the law as it was written.

Now, it has never been illegal for you and I to own a DVD ripper and I say it never will be illegal for you or I to own one.

On this last point you can choose to agree or not agree...but whatever you choose, like me, it is only your opinion...no more, no less.

[Roj]

The point you don't understand is this: Until these concerns become laws then you are not right, and until those concerns become laws I am not wrong.
DMCA has been law for more than a few years now. The 3-2-1 suit was over two years ago.

Your point?

[Roj]

Now, it has never been illegal for you and I to own a DVD ripper

Rubbish.

SHOW me the CANADIAN law on the books that specificially prohibits this.

If you get near a point, make it.

[acushla]

I've bought the popcorn and the soda pop. Have you bought the kneepads yet?

This should be MOST entertaining.Just so we are ALL clear on what the bet entails:

If/When this bill comes out, the FCC will hold supreme ruling on all inventions regarding media devices. Nothing can be invented, unless approved off by the FCC (and of course the media conglomerates behind it).

Too bad the FCC have no say on what goes on in...pick one...any one...OK....China.:bulb:

There may be others.:silly:

[acushla]

Now, it has never been illegal for you and I to own a DVD ripper

Rubbish.

SHOW me the CANADIAN law on the books that specifically prohibits this.

If you get near a point, make it.I do not understand your statement. I claim it has never been illegal for you or I to own a DVD ripper...and you say: 'SHOW me the CANADIAN law on the books that specifically prohibits this.' Perhaps it's just my stupdity coming through again.

I'm saying there is no law that prohibits this.

If you read the Copyright Act as it pertains to Canada be prepared to take about a week off work...it is very complex...but one thing emerges time after time...and that is the difference between 'personal use' and 'commercial use.' For example:

PART III
INFRINGEMENT OF COPYRIGHT AND MORAL RIGHTS AND EXCEPTIONS TO INFRINGEMENT
Infringement of Copyright
General
27 (http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-f.html#27). (1) It is an infringement of copyright for any person to do, without the consent of the owner of the copyright, anything that by this Act only the owner of the copyright has the right to do.


(2) It is an infringement of copyright for any person to(a) sell or rent out,
(b) distribute to such an extent as to affect prejudicially the owner of the copyright,
(c) by way of trade distribute, expose or offer for sale or rental, or exhibit in public,
(d) possess for the purpose of doing anything referred to in paragraphs (a) to (c), or
(e) import into Canada for the purpose of doing anything referred to in paragraphs (a) to (c),...

...and of course, there is more. Lots more. Nothing about making a copy for yourself and certainly nothing about having to 'turn in your DVD Rippers, no questions asked' community picnics.

Owning a DVD Ripper will never be illegal. Using it to make a copy of a encrypted DVD might become illegal...but it certainly isn't illegal in Canada...yet. Lets hope it never will be. I for one, will definitely be writing my thoughts on the matter to Ottawa. As I am certain you will be.:)

[acushla]

DMCA has been law for more than a few years now. The 3-2-1 suit was over two years ago.

Your point?Go back and read the relevant posts again.

What I was speciffically responding to was madjos concern that 'If/When this bill comes out, the FCC will hold supreme ruling on all inventions regarding media devices. Nothing can be invented, unless approved off by the FCC (and of course the media conglomerates behind it).'

As it stands right now, it is NOT the law.:bulb:

That was my point.:)

[Roj]

When this bill comes out, the FCC will hold supreme ruling on all inventions regarding media devices. Nothing can be invented, unless approved off by the FCC (and of course the media conglomerates behind it).

Bought and paid for. Next...

[Roj]

I'm saying there is no law that prohibits this.

It's illegal in the States and has been since DMCA passed. Several other countries rolled over and opened wide to the US on that point - Canada didn't.

Owning a DVD Ripper will never be illegal. Using it to make a copy of a encrypted DVD might become illegal...but it certainly isn't illegal in Canada...

Consider:

Since using a ripper is illegal in the States, it stands to reason that owning one is too. After all, that's what drives posession convictions - I can't exactly claim that I own this pot but ain't smoking, never mind what Bill said about not inhaling.

[Inthewoods]

I want to add one other thing.. there are many scary things coming out of the US Congress.. (or are about to come out of it).
If/When this bill comes out, the FCC will hold supreme ruling on all inventions regarding media devices. Nothing can be invented, unless approved off by the FCC (and of course the media conglomerates behind it).I have no idea where you read or saw that, but trust me, it's total nonsense. "Nothing can be invented?" ya right.

Inventions are, by definition, a product of the human mind. And I have no idea what "will hold supreme ruling" means. The only thing the FCC can do is regulate certain copy restrictions, and even then, there are limitations. Read up on the "broadcast flag" controversy.

[acushla]

When this bill comes out, the FCC will hold supreme ruling on all inventions regarding media devices. Nothing can be invented, unless approved off by the FCC (and of course the media conglomerates behind it).

Bought and paid for. Next...Whoa...hold on to you nike's Gonzalas...it ain't out the door just yet.

[acushla]

Since using a ripper is illegal in the States, it stands to reason that owning one is too.

Like reason has anything to do with it. Shame on you!

Example: It's illegal to walk into a bank with a gun and rob it...but it is not illegal to own a gun.

[acushla]

Hey...here's a story about how the FCC are going to be run out of town...The Evaporation of the FCC

http://www.fourwinds10.com/news/12-science-tech/D-new-technology/2005/12D-08-23-05-the-evaporation-of-the-fcc.html

[acushla]

I have no idea where you read or saw that, but trust me, it's total nonsense. "Nothing can be invented?" ya right.

Inventions are, by definition, a product of the human mind. And I have no idea what "will hold supreme ruling" means. The only thing the FCC can do is regulate certain copy restrictions, and even then, there are limitations. Read up on the "broadcast flag" controversy.Actually, as incredulous as it seems, madjo is correct. (Not that it s incredulous that madjo is correct...lol).

I've come across this reference too many times for it to simply be a rumour. I do not believe for one instant it will pass...think of all the industries which have a vested interest to be certain it doesn't pass...yet it does give one concern that such a proposal could be presented to Congress to consider.

An excerpt: We all have a stake in freedom of expression. But even if some of us don't care about that, these trends are bad for business, too. If technology innovators need permission to market inventions, as the copyright holders and their friends in Congress and the FCC seem to believe, then we'll get less innovation. And we'll all suffer if that happens.

I realize it's not IT's job to yell out in favor of freedom. It's everyone's job.

http://computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/policy/story/0,10801,97829,00.html

[Todd The Kiwi]

Like reason has anything to do with it. Shame on you!

Example: It's illegal to walk into a bank with a gun and rob it...but it is not illegal to own a gun.that's hardly a good comparrison mate.
it's more like downloading a p2p install file
why would you unless you were going to install it, run it and download stuff.

[acushla]

that's hardly a good comparrison mate.
it's more like downloading a p2p install file
why would you unless you were going to install it, run it and download stuff.

As I said...like reason has anything to do with it!

The ability to commit a crime is NOT a crime.

Law 101.

[madjo]

I have no idea where you read or saw that, but trust me, it's total nonsense. "Nothing can be invented?" ya right.

Inventions are, by definition, a product of the human mind. And I have no idea what "will hold supreme ruling" means. The only thing the FCC can do is regulate certain copy restrictions, and even then, there are limitations. Read up on the "broadcast flag" controversy.
Inthewoods, the point is.. I might invent something whole revolutionary regarding media streaming or media recording.. and can get it released in Canada, Europe, Australia with no or little problem (The EU might act up a little, they like their tummies rubbed by the media-conglomerates as well),

But in the US I would need to ask for approval (preferably in threefold) from the FCC to get it rated, and approved, in order to sell it. Keeping in mind, that they would demand this and that and more of the same, before they would approve it. Making such a hassle, that in essence my freedom of expressing my ideas are stifled or making releasing my invention in the US next to impossible.. (the so-called 'chilling effects')

[acushla]

May 6, 2005
In a unanimous decision, the DC Circuit Court of Appeals tossed out the broadcast flag. Click to read more!

Today, you can use any device you like with your television: VCR, TiVo, DVD recorder, home theater receiver, or a PC combining these functions and more. If the FCC's broadcast flag mandate [PDF] had taken effect, some of those capabilities would have been forbidden.

Full story: http://www.eff.org/broadcastflag/

[madjo]

May 6, 2005
In a unanimous decision, the DC Circuit Court of Appeals tossed out the broadcast flag. Click to read more!

Today, you can use any device you like with your television: VCR, TiVo, DVD recorder, home theater receiver, or a PC combining these functions and more. If the FCC's broadcast flag mandate [PDF] had taken effect, some of those capabilities would have been forbidden.

Full story: http://www.eff.org/broadcastflag/
Now if they do the same for the AudioFlag.. and it will quelch my fears a little bit.... (though not my cynicism(sp?) towards any government, I have lost my trust in them long ago)

[Roj]

Like reason has anything to do with it. Shame on you!

Example: It's illegal to walk into a bank with a gun and rob it...but it is not illegal to own a gun.
No but it is irrational - unless it's a Constitutional Right.

[Roj]

As I said...like reason has anything to do with it!

The ability to commit a crime is NOT a crime.

Law 101.
...unless you're in the US where it legally is. See DMCA and the Patriot Act.

[acushla]

...unless you're in the US where it legally is. See DMCA and the Patriot Act.

To clarify: As I no longer reside in the US nor expect too any time soon...all of my comments are in the context of the country I do live in.

I will look up DMCA and the Patriot Act...however...given the scope of what anyone is capable of doing in any given instant to committing a possibly infinite number of crimes...I do not believe we are talking about the same thing.

On the other hand...if it is true that in the USA 'secret' police can approach one in the street and seize them and whisk them away in a van because they might have been considering downloading a DVD ripper or murdering the 34th person who passed them on the right side...well yes...I would be very concerned.

[Roj]

To clarify: As I no longer reside in the US nor expect too any time soon...all of my comments are in the context of the country I do live in.

Really now. I somehow recall in the past you saying on this very board that Canada was essentially a chattel of the US and that everything they did had an immediate bearing on Canadian society. perhaps you had forgotten?

I will look up DMCA and the Patriot Act...

{repare for an exercise in misery. A more concerted effort to strip the rights of individuals to have fair use and innovation , not to mention a waiver of personal rights and freedoms will be hard to find.

Unless you happen to be the RIAA and MPAA and get off on suing Girl Guides.

On the other hand...if it is true that in the USA 'secret' police can approach one in the street and seize them and whisk them away in a van because they might have been considering downloading a DVD ripper or murdering the 34th person who passed them on the right side...well yes...I would be very concerned.

Essentially we are living right next door to a country that is nearing neo fascist dictatorial status - except that the dictators are corporations and a VERY paranoid cadre of old guard gunboat diplomacy militarists (hey I don't make this stuff up - look at their legislative and foreign policy record of late).

If it weren't for the great Canadian winter, I'd be scared. :) :) ;)

[acushla]

If it weren't for the great Canadian winter, I'd be scared. :) :) ;)

If it wasn't for that 'girl guide' comment I might be scared as well.:calm:

For all you Americans reading this (you know who you are) feel free to jump in at any time.

[Roj]

If it wasn't for that 'girl guide' comment I might be scared as well.:calm:

If it weren't for your typical "ready, fire, aim", I'd give you credence. :):) ;) Go back and check the thread.

[WHAT?]

I don't understand the girl guide thing.
But...... By what you are saying.... I can own Limewire, eMule, etc. But just can not use it?
Or are you saying.... I can't even have it exist on the PC?


P.S. Have either of you voted the last time around?

[acushla]

If it wasn't for that 'girl guide' comment I might be scared as well.:calm:

"ready, fire, aim"

ROTFLMAO:silly: :silly: :)

[acushla]

To clarify: As I no longer reside in the US nor expect too any time soon...all of my comments are in the context of the country I do live in.

Really now. I somehow recall in the past you saying on this very board that Canada was essentially a chattel of the US and that everything they did had an immediate bearing on Canadian society. perhaps you had forgotten?

This does not sound like anything I would have said...so...until you produce the post you claim I made this statement in I will consider it no more than an attempt at character assassination and a plot by those who would seek to overthrow me.:silly: :foureyes:

[Roj]

This does not sound like anything I would have said...so...until you produce the post you claim I made this statement in I will consider it no more than an attempt at character assassination and a plot by those who would seek to overthrow me.:silly: :foureyes:
Seek your fate in the labyrunth of the QMP forums - it lies there. They are YOUR words, hence YOU may find them. :)

I will give you the following hint: the discussion took place a while back and had to do with the similarities between Canadian and American cultures. You claimed we were all but identical and I claimed we were rather different (the actuality).

As to character assasination, I've never found it necessary to stoop to that. Those who claim it generally achieve it all by their lonesomes without any assistance required from me or anyone else for that matter.

[acushla]

As to character assassination, I've never found it necessary to stoop to that. Those who claim it generally achieve it all by their lonesomes without any assistance required from me or anyone else for that matter.I was being facetious (thanks for the correction rorythedog...my very own personal spell-check person). I thought the rest of the sentence...'and a plot by those who would seek to overthrow me.' followed by a :silly: and then a :) would have indicated as much. Still...if you weren't certain then I agree that you were correct in addressing it. So no...I didn't mean to imply you were being a 'meanie'. (Roj? A 'meanie'. NEVER.:silly: )

Truth is I know I'm not likely to 'win' any discussion with you (as I am certain many others before me have discovered:ponder: :) ) but I don't let that stop me. Bottom line for me is always the same...FUN...and I have FUN and I learn (today for instance I learnt that ASCAP wanted to sue the Girl Guides for lost revenue from public performances of copyrighted music around camp fires. This is probably a very bad thing to learn because now you could just about tell me ANYTHING and no matter how insane it might seem...I will now have to give it some consideration...like...COULD IT BE TRUE?)...and it is NEVER personal. (Sometimes I do yank chains though...)

What can be better than that?

PS While I think of it...I don't believe I can be held wholly at fault for taking you up on your suggestion to GOOGLE and immediately finding the site I did...and responding in kind. I mean, seriously...what cold, stupid, greedy bastard is going to sue Girl Guides for singing songs around a camp fire?

Now I know.

What was your reaction the very first time you heard about it?

[rorythedog]

"Factitious". Excellent! :foureyes: :silly: