Will anyone care?

[Matt]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0406061libby1.html

Seems like a big deal? Looks like the president commited treason, I would guess thats a fairly big deal, but it doesn't seem to be making massive headlines.

thoughts?

[acushla]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0406061libby1.html

Seems like a big deal? Looks like the president commited treason, I would guess thats a fairly big deal, but it doesn't seem to be making massive headlines.

thoughts?
On first reading it appears to be a lot of 'he said...he said...he said...I was told...'

One side of the story at best...and that is being very generous.

What I am saying is that there is a long way to go with this story before we stand up and say with any knowledge and conviction...'Guilty'.

[Matt]

just what the white house is good at... delaying any responsibility until it doesn't matter anymore.

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

Hmm.. that remark makes me think about global warming for some reason...:gasmask:

[acushla]

just what the white house is good at... delaying any responsibility until it doesn't matter anymore.

I know what you mean...but is that the White House fault or is that just a reflection of your Justice system in general?

It came as a shock to me to learn that Brian J. Doyle, a deputy press secretary for the Department of Homeland Security, admitted his guilt less than one hour after being charged with 23 felony counts, including using a computer to seduce a child and transmitting harmful materials to a minor.

I've watched enough 'Law and Order' not to be surprised that, after retaining a lawyer, a plea of 'Not Guilty' will be heard in the Courtroom.

As an outsider looking in it seems as if a good case could be argued that American Justice has nothing to do with either Justice or truth...and everything to do with technicalities of the gathering of evidence, interviewing of witnesses and the Constitution. Score on just one of those points and you walk out a free man.

[Matt]

the current administration knows how to manipulate and exploit. So the beauracracy (that they in part help setup) is being exploited so they can remain in power and totally f things up. They aren't held accountable because of the games they play to lengthen the process. View this movie, I think its bang on.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Face_the_Nation_Schiffer_Rove.mov


<disclaimer> I am not anti-american, if anything I am pro but I am just baffled by this administration and the ability it has to slim its way out of bad situations.</disclaimer>

[BALTY]

I was going to let this just play out. But to be fair ( I have to speak out now) ... um where was I.. Oh! ...to be fair, Slick Willy got his name mainly because of just that!. (that!, and his was slick most of the time.. But I digress) So I'm thinking you should be saying... "The last two administrations ability to .... etc, etc...", would be more fair, and correct.
Sorry if I skewed your thoughts here... Please go on! :knocked-o

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Disclaimer…
Opinions typed in this post don't reflect those opinions of other participants engaged in this discussion, neither in written dialog, nor in thought. If opinions here are of the exact opposite of what you or anyone else is feeling, or thinking.... please take it up with our new forum overlord! or police which ever the case may be.;)

[Inthewoods]

I've watched enough 'Law and Order' not to be surprised that, after retaining a lawyer, a plea of 'Not Guilty' will be heard in the Courtroom. That's really sort of off the wall, don't you think?. It's analogous to saying "I've watched enough Star Trek not to be surprised that, after being hit by a photon torpedo, a ship will be explode" You're basing this on a TV show? Can you spell F-I-C-T-I-O-N? As an outsider looking in it seems as if a good case could be argued that American Justice has nothing to do with either Justice or truth...and everything to do with technicalities of the gathering of evidence, interviewing of witnesses and the Constitution. Score on just one of those points and you walk out a free man.Of course it's based on gathering of evidence, interviewing of witnesses and the Constitution, how else can there be justice (or truth)?

Without gathering of evidence, interviewing of witnesses and the Constitution, for example, I could simply point at you and say "I saw that man murder that other man" and they would execute you.

I'm not saying that the system isn't abused and misapplied, particularly by powerful people, but I am saying that the "technicalities of the gathering of evidence, interviewing of witnesses and the Constitution" damn well better be what American justice, or any fair judicial system is based on, or we're all in BIG trouble.

[rorythedog]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0406061libby1.html

Seems like a big deal? Looks like the president commited treason, I would guess thats a fairly big deal, but it doesn't seem to be making massive headlines.

thoughts?

Personally, I'd hang the bas***d. But then you all know that anyway.

It seems to me that with or without evidence, there's no smoke without fire.

Pity you can't start applying your constitution to RENDITION (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4878106.stm). Not to mention Guantanamo Bay. Both are absolutely disgraceful situations that even Orwell didn't think up. Truly shameful.

[acushla]

That's really sort of off the wall, don't you think?. It's analogous to saying "I've watched enough Star Trek not to be surprised that, after being hit by a photon torpedo, a ship will be explode" You're basing this on a TV show? Can you spell F-I-C-T-I-O-N? Of course it's based on gathering of evidence, interviewing of witnesses and the Constitution, how else can there be justice (or truth)?

I woke up in the middle of the night and wondered if everybody would realize that my ‘Law and Order’ remark (like my comment ‘… I've never participated in a video conference myself, but I have seen enough Financial Institution commercials to know that if you have people in Hong Kong and people in New York...you're halfway there.’) was an example of being facetious . Used in these contexts it is an adjective that is intended to excite laughter or amusement.

Let’s examine the statement " You're basing this on a TV show? Can you spell F-I-C-T-I-O-N?

F-I-C-T-I-O-N. (How’d I do?):foureyes:

‘Law and Order’ is only ‘fiction’ in as much as the ‘names have been changed to protect the innocent’…or… that the stories are fabricated in order to lead/show greater truths about the law and how we arrive at it. Light years away from the ‘fiction’ of "I've watched enough Star Trek not to be surprised that, after being hit by a photon torpedo, a ship will be explode". (Which, by the way, I already knew.:cool: ) In fact, this is how the ‘Law and Order’ show is described:

PREMISE

Filmed on location in New York City, this hour-long drama showcases the often complex process of determining guilt or innocence, while lives hang in the balance. Sometimes inspired by the latest headlines, the plots of "Law & Order" can hold legal, ethical, or personal dilemmas that plague American culture.

I am confident we could have a long discussion regarding the Former U.S. senator and current "Law & Order" star Fred Thompson who stepped back into the political fray, accepting a position as an adviser to President Bush's Supreme Court nominee. A discussion as to his role as advisor in ensuring that the show is accurate when it comes to depicting ‘law’.

Reading my post and your response it became apparent that there was a disconnect…entirely of my own doing. What I meant to convey more than any other point was that ‘the delaying any responsibility until it doesn't matter anymore’ was not necessarily the fault of the White House. If there is fault in ‘delay’ it rests with the Justice system and all that it requires to get something into court.

[acushla]

Without gathering of evidence, interviewing of witnesses and the Constitution, for example, I could simply point at you and say "I saw that man murder that other man" and they would execute you.



Which is exactly what I said to Matt in my first response.

On first reading it appears to be a lot of 'he said...he said...he said...I was told...'

One side of the story at best...and that is being very generous.

What I am saying is that there is a long way to go with this story before we stand up and say with any knowledge and conviction...'Guilty'.

Wow...we agree! :cross-eye

[rorythedog]

I woke up in the middle of the night and wondered if everybody would realize that my ‘Law and Order’ remark (like my comment ‘… I've never participated in a video conference myself, but I have seen enough Financial Institution commercials to know that if you have people in Hong Kong and people in New York...you're halfway there.’) was an example of being facetious . Used in these contexts it is an adjective that is intended to excite laughter or amusement.

Let’s examine the statement " You're basing this on a TV show? Can you spell F-I-C-T-I-O-N?

F-I-C-T-I-O-N. (How’d I do?):foureyes:

‘Law and Order’ is only ‘fiction’ in as much as the ‘names have been changed to protect the innocent’…or… that the stories are fabricated in order to lead/show greater truths about the law and how we arrive at it. Light years away from the ‘fiction’ of "I've watched enough Star Trek not to be surprised that, after being hit by a photon torpedo, a ship will be explode". (Which, by the way, I already knew.:cool: ) In fact, this is how the ‘Law and Order’ show is described:

PREMISE

Filmed on location in New York City, this hour-long drama showcases the often complex process of determining guilt or innocence, while lives hang in the balance. Sometimes inspired by the latest headlines, the plots of "Law & Order" can hold legal, ethical, or personal dilemmas that plague American culture.

I am confident we could have a long discussion regarding the Former U.S. senator and current "Law & Order" star Fred Thompson who stepped back into the political fray, accepting a position as an adviser to President Bush's Supreme Court nominee. A discussion as to his role as advisor in ensuring that the show is accurate when it comes to depicting ‘law’.

Reading my post and your response it became apparent that there was a disconnect…entirely of my own doing. What I meant to convey more than any other point was that ‘the delaying any responsibility until it doesn't matter anymore’ was not necessarily the fault of the White House. If there is fault in ‘delay’ it rests with the Justice system and all that it requires to get something into court.

Can you spell "Pretentious Twat"? how you got the job is beyond me (and please don't patronise me by implying that I'd want it) but you really have to try to remain impartial. Isn't that implied in the term "moderator"?

Bush is a fanny, all his sidekicks are fanny's, as are all his supporters. Is this rocket science? I think not.

want to ban me? go ahead man. That can be your first big move. You'll have fun with that.

Sometimes an education can be dangerous.

PS - Why DO you live in Canada? Seems to me you're WAY too far North for your opinions.

[Todd The Kiwi]

ha ha ha ha ha that sounds like a dare :laugh:

[BALTY]

:cheerful: Todd I like your new Avatar too!
Rory's Bark is worse than his byte!;) no?

[Todd The Kiwi]

i am so calling the pun police on you =)

and yeah i got it from lynch link it's from lost highway.

[Inthewoods]

So you think Acushla is "WAY to far north" for his opinions? and I quote: PS - Why DO you live in Canada? Seems to me you're WAY too far North for your opinions. Then you say things like this:Personally, I'd hang the bas***d. But then you all know that anyway.

It seems to me that with or without evidence, there's no smoke without fire.

Pity you can't start applying your constitution to RENDITION. Not to mention Guantanamo Bay. Both are absolutely disgraceful situations that even Orwell didn't think up. Truly shameful.I guess that would make you WAY to far east for your opinions then wouldn't it? Just why DO you live in Scotland?

Yours is possibly the most blatent example of the pot calling the kettle black that I have witnessed in my entire life.

[acushla]

want to ban me? .

Sometimes an education can be dangerous.

PS - Why DO you live in Canada? Seems to me you're WAY too far North for your opinions.

Why would I want to ban you? Many of us look forward to your informative input.

As for 'Sometimes an educaton can be dangerous...how do you know that?

I live in Canada because of the Medicare program.

[jkrzok]

Sadly the leak detailed in the filing is not illegal. The President (and the current VP, by executive order) has the authority to declassify anything at any time for any reason. They could be completely partisan reasons, but the Constitution and the laws of the land give whoever is "elected" that authority.

What it does point to is the utter hypocrisy of this administration; if someone leaks information damaging to the administration they're branded as treasonous terrorist-lovers. If Shrub leaks something, he'll just keep his mouth shut about it and it's all good.

[acushla]

Transcript of Brooks and Shields from the April 7th, 2006 ‘The News Hour with Jim Lehrer’ on PBS

The CIA leak case

JL: New subject, the -- the Libby statement to the grand jury that was released yesterday. He claims that the president OKed the release of sensitive intelligence information on Iraq. How do you read that?

MS: I -- I think, legally, the president probably has a case. Politically, he's damaged.

JL: Legally, meaning he has the authority, as president of the United States, to declassify anything he wants?

MS: That's right. That's right.

JL: OK.

MS: But -- but they're in -- they're into -- they're into splitting hairs right now. They're saying, well, it was legal for the president to do it; therefore, it wasn't classified because the president let it out.

The president is selectively leaking, or having leaked, information that is classified for narrow domestic political purposes. And that -- that is not the George Bush that we -- that I think most Americans came to see as a straight-shooter, direct guy, un-nuanced, doesn't talk about the meaning of is, tells you straight from the shoulder.

JL: David?

DB: Mark doesn't understand the difference between a leak and a drip.

A leak hurts me. A drip is -- is information that hurts the other side.

JL: That the public needs to have.

DB: That they need to have.

(CROSSTALK)

DB: It's called open governments.

JL: Open government, right.

(LAUGHTER)

DB: And, so, there is a little hypocrisy on the Bush side.

JL: Yes.

DB: But there's a lot of hypocrisy on the Democratic side. I don't remember Democrats getting upset about leaks that made Donald Rumsfeld look bad or the NSA story.

People like the leaks that help themselves. So, is Bush hypocritical about the leaks? Yes. Are Democrats hypocritical? Yes. Is it a scandal, a legal scandal? No. It's -- it's embarrassing. But it's not the scandal that some people think it is that's going to lead to resignations and firings.

And, by the way, I think, just on political terms, I -- I think this Plame thing has never had any political traction out in the country. Iraq has political traction. This Plame thing is of interest to a lot of people, but it has no real political traction.

[Neo]

In unrelated news... I love Stephen Harper. :biggrin: Environment Minister Rona Ambrose (2nd from Left) and Simcoe Grey MP Helena Guergis (Left) are hot MP's!! :heart:

http://www.helenaguergis.ca/media/BBQ-Hockley-Helena-Rona_har.jpg

(This is just a random photo taken from Helena's site, that is NOT me on the right)

[jkrzok]

In unrelated news... I love Stephen Harper. :biggrin: Environment Minister Rona Ambrose (2nd from Left) and Simcoe Grey MP Helena Guergis (Left) are hot MP's!! :heart:

http://www.helenaguergis.ca/media/BBQ-Hockley-Helena-Rona_har.jpg

(This is just a random photo taken from Helena's site, that is NOT me on the right)

I must say I was terribly disappointed when I didn't find any wallpaper shots on her web site.

It must be nice to live in a country where political discussions concern which party presents the best swim suit calender.:laugh:

[Antman]

As for 'Sometimes an educaton can be dangerous...how do you know that?

LMAO, ROFL, and all that

[Antman]

Sadly the leak detailed in the filing is not illegal.

True. Dictator Dumbass signed an executive order in 2003 making it "not illegal". So, it is legal because the Dictator declared it so.

[Antman]

I am a registered, card carrying member of the Republican Party. I am a fiscal conservative. I am a combat veteran US Marine. I am ashamed for (not of) my country.

I can no longer affiliate myself with the Republicans. I have no problem with abortion; I am grateful that I was not one. White Christians will soon (enough) be a minority in America, praise God. I am the descendant of both legal and illegal immigrants. I am a descendant of "insurgent separatists". I am married to an improperly documented immigrant (an angel of the first degee). I do not support the nation of Israel any more or less than I "support" any other nation or people.

I did not see ANY plane wreckage (in news footage) at the Pentagon. All available evidence contradicts that a passenger jet was involved.

In many ways, I am a bad American. I believe in economic freedom for all. Political freedom will follow. I support gas prices of $10 per gallon (or $2.50 per liter).

Dubya is a hell spawn. Dickless Cheney may or may not be a c*cksucker, but when he speaks, will someone please put something in his mouth? My zipper is stuck.

[rorythedog]

I see these things as all part of the same sh*t so pardon me for not opening a new thread for it. Has anyone got any opinions on this story?

EXTRAORDINARY RENDITION (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4946668.stm) :ninja:

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

I see these things as all part of the same sh*t so pardon me for not opening a new thread for it. Has anyone got any opinions on this story?

EXTRAORDINARY RENDITION (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4946668.stm) :ninja:

Yes. The CIA isnt as intelligent as one might believe :biggrin:

[WHAT?]

I did not see ANY plane wreckage (in news footage) at the Pentagon. All available evidence contradicts that a passenger jet was involved.

In many ways, I am a bad American. I believe in economic freedom for all. Political freedom will follow. I support gas prices of $10 per gallon (or $2.50 per liter).


So what was it, if not what they said?

Why would you support 10 bucks a gallon? Or are you meaning to say that you don't support regulating them? Or boycotting them, etc.?

Just trying to clarify, before debating!:calm:

[Antman]

Just trying to clarify, before debating!:calm:

"...So what was it, if not what they said?"
Sadly, I have to visit "Conspiracy Theory" databanks and publications to consider this. I am not such a theorist. I am, however, quite certain that a gulf exists between the truth and the popular media. I have seen footage recorded from the popular media, and a Pentagon parking lot security camera, that raise the questions a) where is the wreckage b) why is the width of the damage less than the width of the plane c) why is the vapor trail indicative of rocket engines vs jet engines.

I present myself to the community for the abuse I am due for not trusting my government and the media. Governments do not rule the world, bankers/corporations do.

"...Why would you support 10 bucks a gallon? ..."
The price of a commodity should reflect its total cost. The price of cigarettes includes the adjudicated costs of RJR et al, but does not include the cost of healthcare for smokers. If a population cannot afford to "drive the economy" (a pun?), the dynamic will change, science will advance, the post World War II urban environment will become the post modern urban environment of a society that cannot afford the current extra-urban topology.

[Willow of Oz]

I have seen footage recorded from the popular media, and a Pentagon parking lot security camera, that raise the questions a) where is the wreckage b) why is the width of the damage less than the width of the plane c) why is the vapor trail indicative of rocket engines vs jet engines.

you forgot D) the pentagon, the US department of defence building, manages to only get some awkward angle crappy frames of the incident. I mean, why wouldn't you have clear footage from 100 cameras all clearly showing a plane plowing into the building? It's the USDoD building! There should be cameras motion sensing a grasshopper sneezing 2km from the building. Did Microsoft design their security?
And no, I draw no conclusions either, but there do seem to be some anomalous things...

[rorythedog]

I think it was a missile.

I think the real questions are -

Who fired the missile?

Was it a foreign terrorist?

Was it a home-grown terrorist?

Was it a freak military accident?

The flight mumber of the plane which allegedly crashed corresponds with a flight placed somewhere else. The flight had passengers, allegedly. If so, has anybody seen any footage of interviews with friends or relatives of the deceased? I haven't.

If it was a passenger jet where is the evidence of intense burning which would certainly have existed had all that unspent fuel been ignited?

How does this incident tie in with the WTC incident? Are they connected or is it coincidence? It seems unlikely to be a coincidence.

Once we've cleared this up in say, a couple of days, we can start on the second plane to hit the WTC. Another very odd set of circumstances. Maybe we'll get on to why several professional firefighters swore blind they heard demolition charges going off. Then we'll get to building seven, which most certainly was demolished. That's on record, bizarrely.

[Antman]

"...I present myself to the community for the abuse I am due ...

I truly anticipated a rash of flaming bashes, which still may come. Nonetheless, I must declare my surprise that "I am not the only one" who wonders.

[Antman]

"...Has anyone got any opinions on this story?
EXTRAORDINARY RENDITION (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4946668.stm)

I am a citizen of the 21st century's Evil Empire.

[rorythedog]

I truly anticipated a rash of flaming bashes, which still may come. Nonetheless, I must declare my surprise that "I am not the only one" who wonders.

Haha! You haven't been around long eh? I'm not so sure the flames will come though. Almost eveyone feels that the US Governments take on the events of 11/9 is at least questionable.

The official line just isn't tenable, imo. Also, again imo, it doesn't really matter who was responsible because the bigger crime has been the hijacking of those events for US political and military objectives by an unelected government who I imagine only reflect the views of a relative minority of White Conservative Americans. All you other guys don't have opinions.

[Inthewoods]

Haha! You haven't been around long eh? I'm not so sure the flames will come though. Almost eveyone feels that the US Governments take on the events of 11/9 is at least questionable.

The official line just isn't tenable, imo. Also, again imo, it doesn't really matter who was responsible because the bigger crime has been the hijacking of those events for US political and military objectives by an unelected government who I imagine only reflect the views of a relative minority of White Conservative Americans. All you other guys don't have opinions.Oh .

[rorythedog]

Oh .

Knew that last line was a mistake. :o

[BALTY]

I think it was a missile.

I think the real questions are -

Who fired the missile?

Was it a foreign terrorist?


I had heard it was separate, and it was Saddam who had ordered it!



In many ways, I am a bad American. I believe in economic freedom for all. Political freedom will follow. I support gas prices of $10 per gallon (or $2.50 per liter).
.

And as for 10 dollars US per gallon.
I don't know if people dig deep enough into these type's of beliefs, or dig too deeply! But common sense should tell you that this would drive up EVERTHING. Food, heating, plastics, etc. If the US was only one effected, and if this happened overnight and stays that way. It would kill the economy in it's tracks.
If this was across the board (worldwide), then inflation will set in is all!
It would take time to adjust of course. Not as big a deal!
But to wish this to happen (the way you sound) it just stupid!
Sir, I feel you were never a Republican. At first you sounded more like a Liberarian, but with this comment... your Liberal stripe is glaring!
Don't try fooling people yourself!

[rorythedog]

If a $10 Gallon would cripple your economy as you seem to suggest isn't it time to think about basing your economy on something else?

[BALTY]

I have an "If - or" statement!

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

If a $10 Gallon would cripple your economy as you seem to suggest isn't it time to think about basing your economy on something else?

This is interesting. It shows that in the Netherlands petrol prices are amongst the highest noted!

http://www.see-search.com/business/fuelandpetrolpriceseurope.htm

I hope you guys can make sense of it. Units are British pounds / pennies and litres.

Now look where the USA is in the graphs!!

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0826/p01s03-woeu.html

[rorythedog]

This is interesting. It shows that in the Netherlands petrol prices are amongst the highest noted!

http://www.see-search.com/business/fuelandpetrolpriceseurope.htm

I hope you guys can make sense of it. Units are British pounds / pennies and litres.

Now look where the USA is in the graphs!!

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0826/p01s03-woeu.html

Precisely. Nice research Rex.

86% of the pump price in the UK is tax. All governments should be doing similar things but the US won't do it because they know their public won't stand for it. A guaranteed vote loser. So you'll just have to go down the road of illegally securing access to cheap oil by starting wars. That's probably a bit simplistic but I think the jist is correct. The knock-on effect is that the US can't hope to honour the Kyoto protocol, or any other for that matter. Sad really.

[BALTY]

Please don't sound like a 4th grader!

How come he get's a bigger piece?? I think he's cheating... MOM!!!!

[rorythedog]

Please don't sound like a 4th grader!

How come he get's a bigger piece?? I think he's cheating... MOM!!!!

Are you directing this spam at me?!

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

Rory is right though. You Americans should be glad petrol prices are still so low in your country. I dont think that that will stay like that forever...

[Willow of Oz]

what's the price of milk and bread over there? To get a sense of real conversion.

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

what's the price of milk and bread over there? To get a sense of real conversion.

For bread it varies of course depending on the quality. A full loaf of bread costs between 0.80 Euro to 1.30 Euro. A litre milk costs between 0.40 and 0.50 Euro. We just had a milk war between supermarkets so it's gone cheaper.

Go here (http://www.xe.com/ucc/) to convert prices to your currency.

[Solon]

Woah, Hovis (quite good bread) is £0.47 in Tesco right now, whilst 800G of sliced brown bread is £0.28

How many pints of milk is that?

6 pints of Fresh Semi-Skimmed Milk is £1.50 in most supermarkets here.

Btw, I live in the UK.

[idefiXX]

Milk costs between 0.40 and 0.50 Euro.
Over here it's around 60 to 80 eurocents...

[rorythedog]

would it be fair to assume that, from the deafening silence from the US reps here, I've hit upon a grain of truth? Do you believe what your leaders are telling you?

[Antman]

... it just stupid!

I welcome you to my home. Once there, you may call this Marine anything you wish.

In this forum, decorum, please.

[Antman]

And as for 10 dollars US per gallon...It would kill the economy in it's tracks...your Liberal stripe is glaring!

Perhaps my true heart lies in anarchy. I have faith in free markets. Remove white geopolitical control and influence from the brown oil producing countries, distribute that wealth through the "home" economies, and stand by. True freedom as opposed to stability.

I ask you, how many Muslim/Nigerian/indigenous children died today for your drive to work?

[Antman]

would it be fair to assume that, from the deafening silence from the US reps here, I've hit upon a grain of truth? Do you believe what your leaders are telling you?

I was journalism student in circa 1980. I read the following on the UPI wire...

Soviet Ambassador to the UK and his wife (Mikhail and Raisa Gorbachev) were dining with the royal family and Raisa commented on Princess Maragaret's diamond and sapphire necklace. The following day, the palace recvd a call from Cartier's of London - asking permission to make a copy of the necklace for the Gorbachev's (the palace agreed).

Raisa paid for the necklace with an American Express card. 30

After thinking about that for a few years, I understood - The US and the Soviets will never launch their missiles upon each other. This act would kill all the white people.

Do I believe what my leaders are telling me? You can lead horse to water, but that does not make him a duck.

[Todd The Kiwi]

petrol here is over $1.70 per litre
bread is a whopping $3.70 per loaf *
and milk is a staggering $1.50 per litre
air is still free and so are herpes... enjoy :evolved:

solon - you guys still get milk in pints?

*a little explanation is needed here though
we can get the same quality bread for $1 per loaf
but the dairy gets no 'return' on unsold loaves, they wear that cost
the expensive stuff gets 'refunded' if not sold S.O.R [sale or return]

[Willow of Oz]

For bread it varies of course depending on the quality. A full loaf of bread costs between 0.80 Euro to 1.30 Euro. A litre milk costs between 0.40 and 0.50 Euro. We just had a milk war between supermarkets so it's gone cheaper.

Go here (http://www.xe.com/ucc/) to convert prices to your currency.

Thanks.
Yeah, I know about xe, but it wouldn't be what I was after if I found basic costs of living to vary by more than the conversion factor.
Word from aussies is that eating in the UK and europe can be quite expensive (more a restaurant thing I assume).
Anyway, to keep this thing on track, australia must be around $1.20
It does vary by about 10c over the week in a cycle: thursday being cheap, friday being +10c, and gradually dropping day by day back to thursday.
Oh, ah.
But what is petrol?
I'm thinking basic unleaded, which is 2000 octane. I think we also have 6000, 8000 and maybe higher ones. Like maybe something said 98 (9800??). Pfft, I'm not driving a ferrari, so I don't really know.
Higher octane more $$ of course.

[Todd The Kiwi]

um, "98" is 98 octane, as in not even 100 :hurt:

[BALTY]

Perhaps my true heart lies in anarchy. I have faith in free markets. Remove white geopolitical control and influence from the brown oil producing countries, distribute that wealth through the "home" economies, and stand by. True freedom as opposed to stability.

I ask you, how many Muslim/Nigerian/indigenous children died today for your drive to work?
:cheerful: I fully believe in free market as well. Just surprised to see you do too. So what exactly don't you like about the current price of oil and/or gas (and the way it's priced)http://www.quinnware.com/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif You want tax to be higher? Oh that sounds free market. Taxes are already high on them!

Oh, and coming to your house would be fine. My point was just same as what you are upset about (with me saying to you in the forum). I don't like Americans, bitching about America on a worldwide forum. Hell man, why don't you just go the Europe to protest? Then see how warm of a welcome you get back to the States!http://www.quinnware.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

P.S. and I only hit one dude today. I didn't stop and turn around to ask him his origin!

[rorythedog]

:cheerful: I fully believe in free market as well. Just surprised to see you do too. So what exactly don't you like about the current price of oil and/or gas (and the way it's priced)http://www.quinnware.com/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif You want tax to be higher? Oh that sounds free market. Taxes are already high on them!

Oh, and coming to your house would be fine. My point was just same as what you are upset about (with me saying to you in the forum). I don't like Americans, bitching about America on a worldwide forum. Hell man, why don't you just go the Europe to protest? Then see how warm of a welcome you get back to the States!http://www.quinnware.com/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif

P.S. and I only hit one dude today. I didn't stop and turn around to ask him his origin!

You don't get out much, do you?

[BALTY]

No, I keep killing people when I drive!;)

Are you directing this spam at me?!
Spam? is that what you call it?

[rorythedog]

No, I keep killing people when I drive!;)


Spam? is that what you call it?

You have a point?

[WHAT?]

Rory said:
would it be fair to assume that, from the deafening silence from the US reps here.
I'd respond to more of this, but I just assumed going by the title, I'd show I'd care! Didn't want that!

[BALTY]

You have a point?
Yea, I probably did, but I forget... Let me look back again!
So you'll just have to go down the road of illegally securing access to cheap oil by starting wars. That's probably a bit simplistic but I think the jist is correct. The knock-on effect is that the US can't hope to honour the Kyoto protocol, or any other for that matter. Sad really.
Yes, a bit simplistic alright!


Let me just ask this.
What DO you like about America?
What Do you like about North America?
This could be a good starting point for us!

Aintman's point, is his view. Sadly he thinks he is living in the land of an Evil Empire!
It's a sad world then for him! His anti-Americanism puts him into a different category for me then you(being that he is from here ) The fact that he served his country is commendablehttp://www.quinnware.com/forum/images/emots/post/thumbup.gif. But now he's just a citizen as I am. I look at this country as "Opportunity FOR ALL".
...well sadly it usually isn't for those who don't believe that! But I can't feel sorry for those people, 'cause I'm too busy workin' just to get-by like most people.
I do spend time helping the elderly, various diseased children , and church functions. Now those type people Can't always help themselves.

[WHAT?]

Aintman?:laugh:
Oh Balty!

[Antman]

Balty should read a book, not just his church bulletin. After having read at least one book, perhaps his command of the language would improve. I recommend any of the Curious George titles; these seem on par with his level of maturity as reflected in this forum.

It is evil for one nation to consume the world's resources at the rate that we are. The day will come when the victims of our oppressive consumption come to collect.

My offer still stands. Bring your cowardly insults with you. I will need but a few seconds of your time.

[rorythedog]

Balty, you really need to understand that just because someone fundamentally disagrees with your Governments Foreign policy does not mean they hate Americans. That's ridiculous! I am a foreigner. Therefore I have EVERY right to criticize your foreign policy, as it affects me. Did YOU vote for Bush? Is your Government doing the things YOU want them to? Do you hear me comment on your domestic issues? I think not. That's your problem. Your Government (and sadly my own) is creating a climate in which every Western white man is a legitimate target of fundamentalist morons the world over. This doesn't bother you? Of course not, I forgot. You probably haven't ever used a passport before. I suspect you probably don't even have one.

[Inthewoods]

Balty, you really need to understand that just because someone fundamentally disagrees with your Governments Foreign policy does not mean they hate Americans. That's ridiculous! I am a foreigner. Therefore I have EVERY right to criticize your foreign policy, as it affects me. Did YOU vote for Bush? Is your Government doing the things YOU want them to? Do you hear me comment on your domestic issues? I think not. That's your problem. Your Government (and sadly my own) is creating a climate in which every Western white man is a legitimate target of fundamentalist morons the world over. This doesn't bother you? Of course not, I forgot. You probably haven't ever used a passport before. I suspect you probably don't even have one.Same old, same old.....over and over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...

YAAAAWWWWNNNNN..........ZZZZZzzzzz......

Oh and BTW:
Do you hear me comment on your domestic issues? I think not. BULLSHIT

[rorythedog]

Same old, same old.....over and over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...

YAAAAWWWWNNNNN..........ZZZZZzzzzz......

And it's unlikely to change either. :calm:

[rorythedog]

Same old, same old.....over and over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...over...and over...

YAAAAWWWWNNNNN..........ZZZZZzzzzz......

Oh and BTW:
BULLSHIT


Who dug you up?

[Inthewoods]

And it's unlikely to change either. :calm:Which is why I've started ignoring your hateful posts, or replying with just "Oh ."

[rorythedog]

Which is why I've started ignoring your hateful posts, or replying with just "Oh ."

Hateful? Keep on ignoring then, suits me.

You seriously think that the only folks who think as I do are all "foreigners"? What planet are you on? The vast majority of all the stuff I've read about your leaders I've gleaned from Americans!

*EDiT* - Can we now look forward to you trolling these forums copying & pasting all the times I've contradicted myself? Of course there's contradictions. I'm human. I also don't profess to have all the fixes but I can see when something's f***ed! Man if I was that clever do you really think I'd be wasting my time debating your moronic leaders on this forum?

[Inthewoods]

You seriously think that the only folks who think as I do are all "foreigners"? When the did I say that? I can read you know. Fact is, I think the same as you do on much of this, as I've clearly stated many times. The difference is, I don't attack people personally just because they disagree with me.

Example, aimed at Balty:This doesn't bother you? Of course not, I forgot. You probably haven't ever used a passport before. I suspect you probably don't even have one.What kind of condescending, "I'm superior to you" put down attitude is that? What the hell makes you so goddamn self righteous? So you've got a passport, BFD, most folks do.

Newsflash: Everyone's opinion here is valid, not just yours. If you're so insecure that you have to attack everybody personally who dares to disagree with you, at least have the decency to do it in a private message. Everyone here deserves respect. Everyone.

[rorythedog]

Please don't sound like a 4th grader!

How come he get's a bigger piece?? I think he's cheating... MOM!!!!

The above is why Balty got my condescension!

That shouldn't have rattled your cage.

I'm supposed to take cr*p like that? Off someone to whom English is clearly a second language? That'll be shiny bright!

[idefiXX]

When did I say that?
What kind of condescending, "I'm superior to you" put down attitude is that? What the hell makes you so goddamn self righteous?
If you're so insecure that you have to attack everybody personally who dares to disagree with you, at least have the decency to do it in a private message.
This is just unbelievable - damn man ! You could be a double of his majesty, ' Ozzy Ozbourne ! [sarc.]
Seriously - please don't complain about others attacking someone personally by using this horrible language... :cry:

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

Damn, foul language filter isnt working... Where are the mods when you need them!

But seriously, if any of you guys dont like the way the dutch government works, that is not going to offend me. In the end who can really trust politicians anyway. They must speak some international language in crap ha ha

[BALTY]

Aintman,
Are you serious about me coming over?
:confused:
Wow, what an invite!

GOT GUN?:knocked-o Sounds like a scary proposal!
Or should I spell it scarey, since I'm i dum spellar, cause books so foriegn

[BALTY]

The above is why Balty got my condescension!

That shouldn't have rattled your cage.

I'm supposed to take shit like that? Off someone to whom English is clearly a second language? That'll be shiny bright!
Well Rory, Sorry man! But after hearing this stuff over and over. It just sounds like a kid spouting off... "it's not fair"!
I shouldn't have been so candid!
PEACE OUT

[acushla]

Repeat after me...Profanity is a no-no...Profanity is a no-no...

Thanks...let's keep this the 'family forum' it was designed to be.

[Willow of Oz]

Acushla's first major act of moderation?
I don't know how I feel about censorship. What gets censored? Which words are blacklisted? May I blaspheme?
d**n moderators... :dead:
what if I want to post a pic of a chick in a revealing dress (coz it's my background)???

[rorythedog]

Acushla's first major act of moderation?
I don't know how I feel about censorship. What gets censored? Which words are blacklisted? May I blaspheme?
d**n moderators... :dead:
what if I want to post a pic of a chick in a revealing dress (coz it's my background)???

Are you saying you used to be a chick in a revealing dress?! :cyclops:

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

Are you saying you used to be a chick in a revealing dress?! :cyclops:

Or Willow is just referring to his desktop wallpaper which would make perfect sense to me if he's straight. ;)

[Todd The Kiwi]

Aintman,
Are you serious about me coming over?

Wow, what an invite!

GOT GUN? Sounds like a scary proposal!
Or should I spell it scarey, since I'm i dum spellar, cause books so foriegnha ha ha classic :silly:

ooh i missed some wigging out whilst i slumbered :normal:

[WHAT?]

And to think Todd, I was so proud of you for staying out of this!:silly:
But since you dragged it back up! :nervous:
Aren't politics, and religion the two things to avoid at a party?!
:bulb: Let's all just party dudes!:cheeky: :evolved: What do ya say?
Long live qmp

[acushla]

what if I want to post a pic of a chick in a revealing dress (coz it's my background)???...better not let Rex see it!

[WHAT?]

I remember Achusla pulling that PIC off the board right away! :laugh: That was a good PIC though! Can we see it again?