View Full Version : OH Canada! ... Gay marriages?
BALTY
07-21-2005, 02:18 PM
¶ Taxes (your thoughts?). Will there be benefit changes perhaps?
¶ Insurance coverage. ...Again... benefit changes? (I'm not so sure how the program(s) are run in Canada). In the USA there are discounts for family plans.
▐ Will this alter the long haul revenues in either case? Help or hurt?
▐ Other situational case-in-points?
¶ Adoption rules?
¶ Taxes (your thoughts?). Will there be benefit changes perhaps?
¶ Insurance coverage. ...Again... benefit changes? (I'm not so sure how the program(s) are run in Canada). In the USA there are discounts for family plans.
▐ Will this alter the long haul revenues in either case? Help or hurt?
▐ Other situational case-in-points?
¶ Adoption rules?
As far as I know, gay marriages will be treated just like their heterosexual counterparts with all the appellate priveleges and foibles pertaining to benefits, taxes etc. That means a substantial percentage of the population will now finally be treated fairly (and unfortunately gouged as well - goddamned taxes!) vis a vis revenues, etc. I can't imagine why adoption rules would or should be any different. The only ramification I can see in that department is that the already long queue for adoptions just got longer.
madjo
07-21-2005, 11:49 PM
What would be different if people of the same sex marry, compared to people of opposite gender marrying?
The only thing that is different is indeed the gender, but nothing else.
jkrzok
07-22-2005, 12:19 AM
A couple of thoughts.
It is only right and just that homosexuals now have the same right to suffer from in-laws that all straight marrieds have enjoyed all along.
And it seems to be that social prudes should welcome gay marraige. After all, nothing kills off the sex drive as thouroghly as does marraige.
A couple of thoughts.
It is only right and just that homosexuals now have the same right to suffer from in-laws that all straight marrieds have enjoyed all along.
And it seems to be that social prudes should welcome gay marraige. After all, nothing kills off the sex drive as thouroghly as does marraige.
Speak for yourself - I'm still one horny mofo and proud of it. :)
As to social prudes...
...a pox upon them all!!!!!
acushla
07-22-2005, 01:22 AM
A couple of thoughts.
It is only right and just that homosexuals now have the same right to suffer from in-laws that all straight marrieds have enjoyed all along.
And it seems to be that social prudes should welcome gay marriage. After all, nothing kills off the sex drive as thouroghly as does marraige.
Such a cynic!...and no smiley's to suggest otherwise.
Off topic for one moment...yea...jkrzok has a new avatar!
I won't go so far as to say I like it...but I sure think it is better than the one it replaces.
However... your cover is blown...once a Ferrari/Schumacher fan...never a Lotus-Renault/Alonso supporter.
Oh well. That's what makes for good races.
acushla
07-22-2005, 01:27 AM
¶ Taxes (your thoughts?). Will there be benefit changes perhaps?
¶ Insurance coverage. ...Again... benefit changes? (I'm not so sure how the program(s) are run in Canada). In the USA there are discounts for family plans.
▐ Will this alter the long haul revenues in either case? Help or hurt?
▐ Other situational case-in-points?
¶ Adoption rules?
Every right enjoyed by a married couple are now enjoyed by a married couple. Period.
Canada, the fourth enlightened country in the world to remove itself from dictating to others how their lives should be viewed because of a few sentences in a book written in a completely different time under completely different circumstances.
Inthewoods
07-22-2005, 01:31 AM
Speak for yourself - I'm still one horny mofo and proud of it. :) Ditto:devil:
Every right enjoyed by a married couple are now enjoyed by a married couple. Period.
Canada, the fourth enlightened country in the world to remove itself from dictating to others how their lives should be viewed because of a few sentences in a book written in a completely different time under completely different circumstances.
You forgot to add that it was one mostly based on allegory, translated too many times to be sure of accuracy and largely the stuff that fairytales are made of. As such, much of the commentary it makes on so-called "social mores" is best described as moot.
acushla
07-22-2005, 05:19 AM
You forgot to add that it was one mostly based on allegory, translated too many times to be sure of accuracy and largely the stuff that fairytales are made of. As such, much of the commentary it makes on so-called "social mores" is best described as moot.
You always say the same thing better. :)
Shadowraven
07-22-2005, 06:57 AM
I agree with Roj. I've been married for 20 years to the same woman and I find her as interesting now as when we were first married. Maybe more so.
As for Gay Marriages being legal in Canada now, I say good on ya! Gays should share all the same benefits, and drawbacks, that heterosexuals do. Nothing else is fair.
Now if the U.S. could only learn to be half as enlightened. What the Xtian right doesn't seem to understand is that they are fighting a losing battle. Gay Marriage is an inevitibility. It WILL be law eventually. Anything less is plain old discrimination. If you notice almost eveywhere you can find statements listing gyas as a group we can't discriminate against.
The sooner we figure that one out the better it will be for everyone. When we allow discrimination against even one group of people to continue, we all suffer the consequences of it. Directly or indirectly. It just can't stand.
We certainly can't continue to base our laws on Xtian morality. Especially when we don't all share the same concept of what morality is. I personally believethat they have some real issues in that area. I consider some of their ideas to be just plain immoral and unsupportable. That's why the people who founded this country said that we must separate government and religion. They just don't mix well.
Boring thread, nothing to argue with. So yes, this is definetly a positive thing.
BALTY
07-22-2005, 01:28 PM
Not with all the forward thinking on this matter (the title is just an attention getter - my humor sorry), but Roj is the only one to answer (but not fully- that's OK) the question put forth.
I'm not a homophobe on this matter.
So the question only is... how do you think this could effect governments (local, providences, states, nationwide - no pun), Financially, and insurance COST-SHIFTS.
No effect
little effect
much effect
over budgets
under budgets
Maybe I should have put this in form of a poll... nah!
Again, the way the USA does business, this could really effect local governments and businesses. Maybe for the better I don't know, I'm asking!
I'm not so sure about the Federal government.
.. Insurance can be effected, but I'm not sure in how much.
For example I have two kids and a wife and I'm on a family plan through my work. Work pays about 2/3 of the insurance premiums, I pay 1/3.
My, cost lets say for the sake of argument, is $200.00 per month (multiple by 3 for the full cost). A single person's cost is about $135.00 per month. You can see where I'm going with this. Gay's can marry now legally here let's say Adding to the family side of those insured. This leaves a potential hole in the overall thinking in what the big insurance companies have figured.
I'm NOT saying that they can't, and won't adjust.
I'm asking what do you think (and How do you think it) will be adjusted?
Will the adjustment go towards (and be felt by) the current covered family employee.
The good thing about Bush's $500.00 rebate in the USA for families with kids under 16 years of age, is that it wouldn't have been effected if gays adopted. I family with kids is a family with kids.
I think more gays would adopt (not because of the tax break, but because it's legal all the way around), and help out those kids without real homes! Less money would need to go towards orphanages, and that. WIN/WIN in those cases.
But OTHER tax breaks currently in place here, could put a squeeze on government budgets. So I'm sure again, that they will just have to adjust the laws. Do you know how long that would take? (he he he) I guess when money talks they would ram something through fast I guess.
Now in other countries the laws are possibly setup to have this next step take on a smooth transition.
But again... in what way would this effect you or others in your country financually, and what adjustement you see needed for it to really go? (what ever country you reside in)
Please no Gay bashing or Gay hugging. This is not the intent of the question
People are people and I do congratulate those who get it. Two thumbs up for Canada!~
And Shadow... what are you doing up at 2 in the morning ;) ?
acushla
07-22-2005, 02:38 PM
The sooner we figure that one out the better it will be for everyone. When we allow discrimination against even one group of people to continue, we all suffer the consequences of it.
I think we should be allowed to discriminate against Blue People.
Thems just ain't right. You can't trust 'em.
Would you want one dating your daughter/son?
I think we should be allowed to discriminate against Blue People.
Thems just ain't right. You can't trust 'em.
Would you want one dating your daughter/son?
Hey, I *like* the Blue Man Group.
"Rock Movement Number One!..."
jkrzok
07-22-2005, 07:24 PM
I think we should be allowed to discriminate against Blue People.
Thems just ain't right. You can't trust 'em.
Would you want one dating your daughter/son?
Only if my son/daughter brought one to share. :laugh:
Kinda brings a whole new meaning to 'feeling blue.' :ponder:
Only if my son/daughter brought one to share. :laugh:
Kinda brings a whole new meaning to 'feeling blue.' :ponder:
Or "Kind Of Blue" (that one's aimed at you acushla).
BTW, COOL avatar. :) :) ;)
Shadowraven
07-22-2005, 11:41 PM
You all are TWISTED!!! Leave Blue people alone. They have a great musical group, how bad can they be!!
That said, now to answer Balty....
I don't think it would have too much of an effect on insurance companies for life insurance. Life insurance can be bought on anyone as far as I know. However, it may have some effect on Health Insurance if you begin to cover families rather than individuals. I'm not sure how much, or what kind of effect it would have though, good or bad.
As for taxes, it would probably hurt the government to some degree. Remember, gays are now paying taxes at the Singles rate, which is the highest one. If they switch to the Married rate, the government would probably get less revenue than they do now. It might be a good thing, maybe then they would start taxing corporations the way they do individuals. Yeah, right. Don't hold your breath.
BALTY
07-22-2005, 11:51 PM
You all are TWISTED!!! Leave Blue people alone. They have a great musical group, how bad can they be!!
That said, now to answer Balty....
I don't think it would have too much of an effect on insurance companies for life insurance. Life insurance can be bought on anyone as far as I know. However, it may have some effect on Health Insurance if you begin to cover families rather than individuals. I'm not sure how much, or what kind of effect it would have though, good or bad.
As for taxes, it would probably hurt the government to some degree. Remember, gays are now paying taxes at the Singles rate, which is the highest rate. If they switch to the Married rates, the government would probably get less revenue than they do now. I might be a good thing, maybe then they will start taxing corporations the way they do individuals then. Yeah, right. Don't hold your breath.
Thank you Shadow.
Finally an answer. Wow I was beginning to think nobody was really reading the question.
madjo
07-23-2005, 03:26 AM
Balty, ask yourself this question:
what is the difference between the two types of marriages? other than that both partners of the same gender?
if there is no difference there, then why should the other things also be different?
everyone should have equal rights, opportunities and duties.
Todd The Kiwi
07-23-2005, 03:31 AM
deleted by admin. Please don't gay bash.
acushla
07-23-2005, 06:02 AM
...or was it purple people?
acushla
07-23-2005, 06:04 AM
Balty, ask yourself this question:
what is the difference between the two types of marriages? other than that both partners of the same gender?
if there is no difference there, then why should the other things also be different?
everyone should have equal rights, opportunities and duties.
I thought I had answered this by saying there would be no difference. More married people...that's all.
acushla
07-23-2005, 06:06 AM
deleted
Come on Todd...we all know sometimes you like to wear lacy black panties under your jeans.
No shame in that...we ALL do it once in a while. :) :cheeky: :)
madjo
07-23-2005, 07:47 AM
Come on Todd...we all know sometimes you like to wear lacy black panties under your jeans.
No shame in that...we ALL do it once in a while. :) :cheeky: :)
ahhhhhhhhhh so I'm not the only one doing that! :P
BALTY
07-23-2005, 01:21 PM
Balty, ask yourself this question:
what is the difference between the two types of marriages? other than that both partners of the same gender?
if there is no difference there, then why should the other things also be different?
everyone should have equal rights, opportunities and duties.
I've asked, believe me.
Where are you going with this question back?
Thanks for you response though. However you missed the boat completely if you mean to say "I think we are not"!
It's not a wrong or right question. It never was. Please Re-Read!
If you are just egging me on for no reason other than for a laugh go ahead, I can take it! (It's kind of my humor too).
But seriously...
Why;
do you think this question has something to do with Social rights?
To answer your question... see my comments on my original questions.
I shall scratch the question if we are going to have everyone's enlightened defense screen up when it's not warranted! http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0083.gif It's no big deal.... I thought... sheeesh.
In the USA it potentially may flood or shift those people's current marital statuses. Potentially shifting taxes, and insurance rates!!!!!
I can see a lot of changes to be made if it were to happen here in the US. Just curious about other potential issues to watch out for (to adjust prior to making it a law here) in this change. If we (USA) make the necessary adjustments ahead of time then maybe there'll be a better chance to get it done!
See now where I'm going with this?
And Acushy... I'm Blue!http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0043.gif
I digress~
keep 'er clean folks. Some may not agree with it, even so, there is no reason to make offensive comments.
madjo
07-25-2005, 05:26 AM
If you are just egging me on for no reason other than for a laugh go ahead, I can take it! (It's kind of my humor too). I was not egging you.. I just don't see the problem.. but that may be my Dutch 'too-liberal' mindedness, where gay people now not only can get married, but also adopt children... ;)
perhaps I just don't understand the law or anything, but I don't believe much changed in NL after gay-marriage were legalized. (It was however phased in in steps, first they could only get a 'living-together' contract (which hetero couples can get too btw), only some years later gay-marriage was legalized. That law exists since April 2001, but it is not different from a 'normal'/heterosexual marriage... both types of marriages are virtually equal (except for the acceptance of it abroad))
quote from the Dutch wikipedia site (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homohuwelijk) on gay-marriages:
"The lawmakers who voted for [gay marriages] call on the principle of non-discrimination."
:)
but again, I'm not egging you, or trying to go for a laugh, because this is pretty serious to me (no I'm not gay myself, but I have friends who are, even married ones)
acushla
07-25-2005, 06:24 AM
keep 'er clean folks. Some may not agree with it, even so, there is no reason to make offensive comments.
I am truly impressed.
Thank-you.
Todd The Kiwi
07-25-2005, 07:53 AM
freedom of speech... :ninja:
freedom of speech... :ninja:
Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing that's oh-so-easy to pervert into something terrible. It requires good judgement, deligence, maturity and open-mindedness for it to be maintained as a positive thing. What if it were used to say derogatory and malicious things about Kiwis? Canadians? Jamaicans? Would that still be a good thing? I rather think not. That mindset has to apply to any and all for freedom of speech to remain the wonderful right that it is. If it isn't, the horrible twins of prejudice and persecution are only too willing to slither in, twisting a beautiful thing into something dark, shameful and dangerous.
That's not a politically correct statement; that's a lesson learned the hard way through life.
Please think about it.
Hanzo
07-25-2005, 12:38 PM
One question about gay marriage over there in Canada.
Will they be allowed to adopt children? If so what's the minimum age?
One question about gay marriage over there in Canada.
Will they be allowed to adopt children? If so what's the minimum age?
As far as I know, there will be no differences between a gay marriage and straight marriage vis a vis adoption so I guess that would mean no age limit.
Hanzo
07-25-2005, 02:06 PM
As far as I know, there will be no differences between a gay marriage and straight marriage vis a vis adoption so I guess that would mean no age limit.
Yikes, Im not against gay people, but adoptin children who are in formation... that for me just doesn't seem right. I think they have adoption rights but for children of a certain age. Enough for them to be able to decide their own sexual preferences.
Just my 0.02 cents.
Yikes, Im not against gay people, but adoptin children who are in formation... that for me just doesn't seem right. I think they have adoption rights but for children of a certain age. Enough for them to be able to decide their own sexual preferences.
Just my 0.02 cents.
Hold up on that. I personally know a number of single moms who are gay and are raising kids who are straight. It's a common misconception that being gay is a preference rather than who you are at the core. If a child is stright, having a gay parent isn't going to change or influence that.
jkrzok
07-25-2005, 03:09 PM
Yikes, Im not against gay people, but adoptin children who are in formation... that for me just doesn't seem right. I think they have adoption rights but for children of a certain age. Enough for them to be able to decide their own sexual preferences.
Just my 0.02 cents.
Let's not forget all the straight parents that have gay children. It doesn't look like they were 'formed' into gays; they were born that way.
Hanzo
07-25-2005, 03:20 PM
Hold up on that. I personally know a number of single moms who are gay and are raising kids who are straight. It's a common misconception that being gay is a preference rather than who you are at the core. If a child is stright, having a gay parent isn't going to change or influence that.
Let's not forget all the straight parents that have gay children. It doesn't look like they were 'formed' into gays; they were born that way.
Agreed... but still I think there should be a study on this matter rather than our personal experiences. I know of straight couples with gay children and some divorced/widowed persons living under the same roof with a gay partner (not married, because it's illegal here - but raising children) that have influenced children into becoming gay as well.
I think the process of adoption should be enhanced / modified in order to allow gay couples to adopt and the same should be applied to straight couples.
Again, just my 0.02 cents.
Yikes, Im not against gay people, but adoptin children who are in formation... that for me just doesn't seem right. I think they have adoption rights but for children of a certain age. Enough for them to be able to decide their own sexual preferences.
If there's nothing wrong in being gay, then why should that be worried about?
Just something to think about.
Agreed... but still I think there should be a study on this matter rather than our personal experiences.
There's no study done with straight parents and I'd hazard a guess that abuse from stright parents is a FAR more pressing problem.
In short, none is required.
Hanzo
07-26-2005, 04:22 PM
There's no study done with straight parents and I'd hazard a guess that abuse from stright parents is a FAR more pressing problem.
In short, none is required.
Not even a psicological exam? In Panama there are some tests and stuff couples have to go thru in order to adopt.
Not even a psicological exam? In Panama there are some tests and stuff couples have to go thru in order to adopt.
Whatever straight couples undergo, gay couples should undergo. The point I'm trying to make is that gay couples should not have to undergo any *extra* testing just because they're gay.
Todd The Kiwi
07-26-2005, 11:50 PM
eep... struggling... not... to... gay... bash... gaaaaarrggh!
eep... struggling... not... to... gay... bash... gaaaaarrggh!
Good boy Todd, we knew oyu could do it. :)
Shadowraven
07-29-2005, 05:38 AM
It's obviously killing him though! :cheeky:
Breath Todd, breath. Slow deep breaths.
Todd The Kiwi
07-29-2005, 11:20 AM
sorry lads, i just have a zero tolerance when it comes to them :shudder: :ermm:
Hanzo
07-29-2005, 01:26 PM
sorry lads, i just have a zero tolerance when it comes to them :shudder: :ermm:
I used to be like you man, I know what you're talking about.
But I've learned to hold myself and accept that no matter how much I hate, despise, disdain, bully, hit, kick and spit... they are still here and will be for a long time for what I see.
acushla
07-29-2005, 02:59 PM
I used to be like you man, I know what you're talking about.
But I've learned to hold myself and accept that no matter how much I hate, despise, disdain, bully, hit, kick and spit... they are still here and will be for a long time for what I see.
My lady lover's son is 'gay'...and I have learnt a tremendous amount as a result. I never really felt one way or the other...but was always amazed by those who exhibited such a intense dislike. I mean...it's not like their plotting against you or anything.
Now I simply see them as regular people who happen to enjoy making love (or whatever) with members of their own sex rather than the opposite sex.
What's the big deal?
Further to that I recognize the fact that people do 'hate'...and I suppose that's all right.
What is NOT all right is to round them up and shoot them all. In other words...whatever your personal feelings are...keep them to yourself.
Hanzo
07-29-2005, 03:00 PM
My lady lover's son is 'gay'...and I have learnt a tremendous amount as a result. I never really felt one way or the other...but was always amazed by those who exhibited such a intense dislike. I mean...it's not like their plotting against you or anything.
Now I simply see them as regular people who happen to enjoy making love (or whatever) with members of their own sex rather than the opposite sex.
What's the big deal?
Further to that I recognize the fact that people do 'hate'...and I suppose that's all right.
What is NOT all right is to round them up and shoot them all. In other words...whatever your personal feelings are...keep them to yourself.
Agreed... That's why I said "I used to be"
:cool:
acushla
07-29-2005, 03:14 PM
Agreed... That's why I said "I used to be"
:cool:
I see how you might have thought my last sentence was directed toward you. I assure you, it wasn't.
I knew where you were coming from...and I had no problem with it at all.
My statement simply reflected my own thoughts on the matter.
'Used to be' in this context shows growth and maturity. :)
Often times it is easier simply to 'hate' or 'fear' those things we don't understand. If one takes the time to learn a little more then it is likely that one's perspective will change. That doesn't mean you feel any different about it...but that new knowledge might make your reaction different.
Are you listening Todd? :bulb: :knocked-o
Shadowraven
07-29-2005, 07:46 PM
When I was stupid and ignorant I too at one time had a problem with them. Now I know several who are good friends, so my view has changed somewhat. I don't feel threatened by gays, nor do I try to avoid them, but I will defend them. I may not care for their particular lifestyle, but I don't hold it against them. They are people like everyone else, with only one real difference between them and "normal" folks.
acushla
07-29-2005, 08:15 PM
When I was stupid and ignorant...
In the great ....oh, forget it.
This would have been way to easy. :silly:
madjo
08-01-2005, 01:01 AM
In the great ....oh, forget it.
This would have been way to easy. :silly:
Pssst, it is "way too easy".. not "to" :p
btw, indeed I agree with what you said earlier, gay people are just people, I really don't see what the big deal is... :)
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