Schapelle Corby Case

[Protocol]

With all the media hype surrounding the Schapelle Corby (http://www.schapellecorby.com.au/) case at the moment, I just wondered what other members thought about the case and the subsequent court ruling.
My opinion is that regardless of whether she is innocent or guilty (which I doubt), no-one should ever be convicted for a crime (especially one that carries such heavy penalties) on such flimsy so-called evidence. Too much doubt exists based on the evidence produced to take away 20 years of someone’s life or even worse, extinguish someone’s life. Surely doubt exists when the only evidence produced was that it was found in her bag and from airport staff hearsay claiming she admitted owning the drugs (which she has always denied). We must remember that the airport staff and the accused native languages are different. Why would someone smuggle marijuana into another country in an unlocked boogie board bag? And why would you take it from one country to another country where you would only receive a fraction of the original cost price?
And why were so many routine checks and evidence not taken? Not even bothering to finger print the boogie board bag. No pre-flight / post-flight weight comparisons of the boogie board bag. Airport CCTV evidence not retrieved.
If the Indonesian judicial system want to convict people of such serious crimes (at least in their country), then they need to get their act together and investigate cases a lot better and more thoroughly and actually get some real evidence.
A government investigation report released recently showed evidence of drug smuggling amongst baggage handlers in Australia where they use travellers baggage to move it from one destination to another. There has already been at least 2 baggage handlers sacked in relation to this report. Surely this alone must raise questions and doubt as to how the drugs got into her boogie board bag.
I, like many others find that there have been too many questions left unanswered to send someone to hell for 20 years.
If you have any doubt as to how much interest and debate this case has stirred around the world, then just type “Schapelle Corby” into Google and press the “Enter” key on your keyboard. She has even made it into WikipediA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schapelle_Corby).

[acushla]

I, like many others find that there have been too many questions left unanswered to send someone to hell for 20 years.

IMHO...in this case 'truth' has no bearing on the real issue.

The real issue, as I see it, is an opportunity for the Indonesian government to use her as a scapegoat to issue a very loud and powerful deterrent to anybody foolish enough to try to smuggle drugs inside its borders.

A total disgrace.

[Shadowraven]

Don't know enough about this case yet to make an informed reply. This is the first time I've ever heard of this consciously.

What I do know is that the Indonesian government is in no way concerned with innocence, guilt, or human rights. They never have been. Their "justice" system is a joke. They are more concerned with convictions than guilt. If you go to their country and expect fair treatment, you are in the wrong place. It's effectively a military dictatorship. That type of government generally has a poor record on human rights.

[Roj]

Don't know enough about this case yet to make an informed reply. This is the first time I've ever heard of this consciously.

What I do know is that the Indonesian government is in no way concerned with innocence, guilt, or human rights. They never have been. Their "justice" system is a joke. They are more concerned with convictions than guilt. If you go to their country and expect fair treatment, you are in the wrong place. It's effectively a military dictatorship. That type of government generally has a poor record on human rights.
Now isn't it funny that when someone's life is threatened unfairly, there are no trumped up claims of weapons of mass destruction and no oil involved, the entire planet is pussywhipped. Having read a bit about the case and as a traveller seen a few things that stand out glaringly as oversights, I'd expect the Oz government to get up off its ass and issue the following statement to Indonesia:

"Give her back. Now. Or we'll come in there and kick your sorry asses. Today."

I'm just a little intolerant of candy-asses weak-kneed politicans and despotic governments that mess with the rights of individuals from outside their country (their own people are their own problem).

[acushla]

Now isn't it funny that when someone's life is threatened unfairly, there are no trumped up claims of weapons of mass destruction and no oil involved, the entire planet is pussywhipped. Having read a bit about the case and as a traveller seen a few things that stand out glaringly as oversights, I'd expect the Oz government to get up off its ass and issue the following statement to Indonesia:

"Give her back. Now. Or we'll come in there and kick your sorry asses. Today."

I'm just a little intolerant of candy-asses weak-kneed politicans and despotic governments that mess with the rights of individuals from outside their country (their own people are their own problem).

Hear, hear!

Like I said...a TOTAL disgrace.

[Shadowraven]

Now isn't it funny that when someone's life is threatened unfairly, there are no trumped up claims of weapons of mass destruction and no oil involved, the entire planet is pussywhipped. Having read a bit about the case and as a traveller seen a few things that stand out glaringly as oversights, I'd expect the Oz government to get up off its ass and issue the following statement to Indonesia:

"Give her back. Now. Or we'll come in there and kick your sorry asses. Today."

I'm just a little intolerant of candy-asses weak-kneed politicans and despotic governments that mess with the rights of individuals from outside their country (their own people are their own problem).
Well Acushla, let's get real. It's not like anything important is involved here, just someone's rights being trampled on. She isn't important or rich, so she doesn't really matter anyway, now does she? So who cares? HA!

Her government should get off their butts and do what they are paid for. Namely, protecting the rights of their citizens. But they won't. She isn't rich enough, or influential enough for them to care about. I know the only time my government reacts to anything, it's when the interests of someone who is filthy rich is involved. To hell with the rest of us! Don't believe me? Read the record kids, it's easy enough to find.

[krazyd]

Haha, I doubt Australia could kick Indonesia's ass anyway considering our armed forces are probably only about 1/6 the size of Indonesia's. :cheeky: :nervous:

I totally agree that 20 years is ridiculous (the prosecution are appealing for life!) and the least Indonesia could do is organise for Corby to serve her time in Australia, but I really don't think that demanding her return is the answer. That would be undermining the whole idea of a country's right to govern within it's own borders, even if the country in question has a proven record of corruption throughout it's judicial and political systems.

With that said, and despite Indonesian corruption, I have my doubts about Corby's innocence. :shocked:

[acushla]

Well Acushla, let's get real.

Errr....not exactly certain what you are getting at here. I am so totally disgusted by not only the actions of the Indonesian government...but by the seeming total inaction by the world community at large.

I recognize the right for countries to assert and enforce their own criminal code...but when it is as so totally without merit as this is...and the punishment leveled out is as harsh and inhumane as this case is...then I think something needs to be done.

It isn't right...every civilized nation knows it isn't right...and yet nobody does a thing.

Totally disgusting.

That's about as real as I get.

[Willow of Oz]

It may be she's innocent. It may be she's framed. It may be the sentences are overly harsh.
But shouldn't a country (country A) have the right to sentence people breaking the laws of that country?

And if country B want to take their citizen back to serve the sentence in country B, because country B is softer, why would country A comply?

And since sentences are determined on a country by country basis (not even that, but let's simplify), then who is to say: USA, death penalty? Nope. Europe: life? Nope.

So all that I can see as a valid reason for intervention is in the case of her being innocent / framed, in which case it's a matter of preventing a miscarriage of justice.

[acushla]

It may be she's innocent. It may be she's framed. It may be the sentences are overly harsh.
But shouldn't a country (country A) have the right to sentence people breaking the laws of that country?

And if country B want to take their citizen back to serve the sentence in country B, because country B is softer, why would country A comply?

And since sentences are determined on a country by country basis (not even that, but let's simplify), then who is to say: USA, death penalty? Nope. Europe: life? Nope.

So all that I can see as a valid reason for intervention is in the case of her being innocent / framed, in which case it's a matter of preventing a miscarriage of justice.

As distasteful as it is for me to acknowledge that, in principal, you are correct...I also feel that this looks very much like a miscarriage of justice and as such there ought to be some manner of recourse on the International stage to intervene.

[Roj]

As distasteful as it is for me to acknowledge that, in principal, you are correct...I also feel that this looks very much like a miscarriage of justice and as such there ought to be some manner of recourse on the International stage to intervene.
It's NOT a miscarriage of justice. That presumes that there was justice to miscarry.

This is trumped up fodder.

By a two-bit dictatorship.

To set an example and make a point at the expense of a young girls's life.

That's just criminal.

[Todd The Kiwi]

i think the entire world has learned a lesson from this already, even if she doesn't go to jail.
i hope they give her all that weed if she does though, solice in the fact y'know.

[acushla]

i think the entire world has learned a lesson from this already, even if she doesn't go to jail.
i hope they give her all that weed if she does though, solice in the fact y'know.

I don't think any amount of 'weed' is going to give her one moment of 'solice' in jail.

I know it is tempting to reduce this to some sort of 'stoner' perspective...but believe me...that's the last thing on her mind right now.

This is truly serious and has gone well past the tired and trite cliches of marijuana culture.

[Todd The Kiwi]

bleh, i'm not even replying to that.

[acushla]

bleh, i'm not even replying to that.

Didn't mean to single you out on that one Todd...just that there has been a number of 'jokes' made surrounding this...and I really do not think it is a joking matter...and I feel that people who reduce it to that level are part of the problem. If you know what I mean.

Speaking of 'knowing what I mean'...perhaps you could expand on this for me: 'i think the entire world has learned a lesson from this already'.

What lesson would that be Todd?

[Protocol]

Speaking of 'knowing what I mean'...perhaps you could expand on this for me: 'i think the entire world has learned a lesson from this already'.

What lesson would that be Todd?
I was wondering the same thing. :puzzled:

[madjo]

Who is this Schapelle Corby? and what did(n't) she do?
I have never heard of this, before this thread...
So not all around the world, is this known...

[Todd The Kiwi]

it seemed a good thing to type at the time, oh well.

[Sheepeh]

Who is this Schapelle Corby? and what did(n't) she do?
I have never heard of this, before this thread...
So not all around the world, is this known...

I haven't heard about this either (and I watch quite a lot of news channels).

[krazyd]

Who is this Schapelle Corby? and what did(n't) she do?
I have never heard of this, before this thread...
So not all around the world, is this known...
She's just this Australian girl who got caught trying to enter Indonesia with a 4.1 kg bag of weed in her bodyboard bag. She recently got convicted by an Indonesian court and sent to prison for 20 years. The thing is that she claims she didn't know anything about the drugs.
The Australian media made a big deal about the case and whipped up such strong public feelings about it that the Indonesian embassy in Canberra has been recieving threats and envelopes filled with 'white powder', and some Australian charities have reported people demanding their money back after donating to tsunami devastated Indonesia.
For example:
...Australia's often hysterical and partisan tabloids have whipped up such a frenzy of indignation - can anyone remember when two private television networks of any country last carried the verdict of a tourist's drug trial live? -- The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,1501172,00.html)
It's quite a big deal over here, though interest seems to be waning.

[acushla]

Who is this Schapelle Corby? and what did(n't) she do?
I have never heard of this, before this thread...
So not all around the world, is this known...

You know madjo...in your own unique and innocent way...have hit the nail squarely on the head...why have you not heard of this?

This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the media and the unexusable apathy that seems to surround this entire affair.

Every person in the civililized world should be aware of this...and Indonesia should be told to hand her over NOW or face consequences that would make them wish they had never heard the name of Schapelle Corby.

Problem is that in a world where the Supreme Court in the US tells Doctors they cannot prescribe medicinial marijuana for patients in extreme pain and dying...I no longer hold out much hope for anything at all that would pass for rationial thinking.

Jon Stewart of 'The Daily Show' fame showed a clip of one of the people responsible for having medicinial marijuana revoked...she asked...'were do we draw the line?'

Jon thought that maybe allowing Doctors to prescribe a proven medicinial aid might be a good place to draw the line.

[Protocol]

This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the media and the unexusable apathy that seems to surround this entire affair.

Every person in the civililized world should be aware of this...and Indonesia should be told to hand her over NOW or face consequences that would make them wish they had never heard the name of Schapelle Corby.
Exactly acushla. This country is still the corrupt dictatorship it has always been despite what they may have you believe. It is bad enough the way a country treats their own people, but when they do it to a citizen of another country, that is where the government of the affected country should draw the line. The judicial system is nothing short of a farce. And I am sick to death of hearing the Australian government saying they cannot intervene in another countries judicical system even thought they know it is farcical. Let's just hope it doesn't happen to too many other people who dare to travel to this corrupt country.

[Shadowraven]

Errr....not exactly certain what you are getting at here. I am so totally disgusted by not only the actions of the Indonesian government...but by the seeming total inaction by the world community at large.

That's about as real as I get.
It's called irony Acushla. I would think that of all people, YOU would have got that one. You should know I'm facetious.

Obviously I'm using sarcasm to point out how ridiculous this conviction would probably be. She may be guilty, but I find it far more likely that she is being tried in another Indonesian kangaroo court. They already know what they want the verdict to be. It's bad enough that they do this to their own people, but when they do it to the citizen of another country, they've gone too far. Hell, even the US doesn't seem to have the guts anymore to stand up and protect it's own citizens. I guess it should come as no surprise then that another western-based country would wimp out too.

[acushla]

It's called irony Acushla. I would think that of all people, YOU would have got that one. You should know I'm facetious.

Obviously I'm using sarcasm to point out...

Ah...so THAT'S why nobody gets my humour...it isn't funny!

Now I get it...gee...and I thought it was everybody else who was stupid...now I find out it's just me.

Lesson learnt. Thanks.

[krazyd]

Obviously I'm using sarcasm to point out how ridiculous this conviction would probably be. She may be guilty, but I find it far more likely that she is being tried in another Indonesian kangaroo court. They already know what they want the verdict to be. It's bad enough that they do this to their own people, but when they do it to the citizen of another country, they've gone too far. Hell, even the US doesn't seem to have the guts anymore to stand up and protect it's own citizens. I guess it should come as no surprise then that another western-based country would wimp out too.
Australia has never had the guts to stand up for it's own citizens.
At least Corby got a trial. (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15570428-29277,00.html)

[Roj]

Australia has never had the guts to stand up for it's own citizens.
At least Corby got a trial. (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15570428-29277,00.html)
Between it's puritanical censorship rules and now this, I do believe Oz needs to join the 21st Centruy.

Sorry - that just how I see it...

[Willow of Oz]

Between it's puritanical censorship rules and now this, I do believe Oz needs to join the 21st Centruy.

Sorry - that just how I see it...

I feel compelled to say something here, if only because I'm from Oz, but having a prime minister known as "1950s Johnny" makes any case difficult http://quinnware.com/forum/images/emots/grin.gif

If we're talking social and related freedoms, then whilst I would agree that Oz may not be quite in the 21st century, at least we have a lot of company.

[Roj]

I feel compelled to say something here, if only because I'm from Oz, but having a prime minister known as "1950s Johnny" makes any case difficult http://quinnware.com/forum/images/emots/grin.gif

If we're talking social and related freedoms, then whilst I would agree that Oz may not be quite in the 21st century, at least we have a lot of company.
Sadly, I have to agree with you. The only reason I'm taking Oz specifically to task in this instance is because it's an Oz citizen whose life is being derailed by a two-bit government (Indonesia's) trying to make itself look good and the government responsible for that citizen is sitting on its fat ass doing nothing. This is not to say that other countries don't have fat asses.

I had a dear friend called Bharat. In 1987, this gentle soul who trusted people and never had a band thing to say about anyone took a trip to Europe as a precursor to going to MIT where he had scored a fellowship. As you can see, Bharat was a *very* bright guy.

He never came home.

All of his belongings were found in Norway - none were stolen. The Canadian government was brought into it and they did the usual cursory BS that guvvies generally do (not all, but too many for comfort). They didn't find anything and gave up after a relatively short march of days. Bharat's father who was a reasonably affluent businessman who owned a store in Calgary, Alberta did NOT give up. He sold his store and used the proceeds and his time to go looking for his lost son at considerable expense.

Bharat's remains were eventually found several *years* later in a ravine, where he had been thrown while still alive. His wristwatch (a Rolex) and FULL wallet containing quite a bit of cash were found on his remains and he had broken several bones in the fall. He had likely languished there for quite a while before finally dying.

One thing was missing: his passport.

The paid individuals who had conducted the search and had succeeded where the Canadian government had failed conjectured that he had been killed for his passport, likely because a mule needed it for safe passage. A mule is a drug courier - it is beyond inconceivable that by gentle Bhuddist friend would have had anything remotely to do with anything involving drugs.

Bharat had introduced me to another person who also became a dear friend - Farid. On the day of Farid's wedding several years ago when I had the honor of being the only outsider to have his picture taken with the bridal party in a traditional ceremony, we looked at each other and the same words came from each of us unbidden:

"Bharat should be here with us now."

It was a sad pall, however brief, on an otherwise joyous day.

I hold a hard place in my heart for the Canadian government and the way they "handled" that incident. This mess with Oz brought back to me all too clearly how governments sacrifice the rights of the individual to expediency even when that individual is in peril.

[acushla]

If we're talking social and related freedoms, then whilst I would agree that Oz may not be quite in the 21st century, at least we have a lot of company.

Seems to me there is something very revealing about this statement...and I'm not certain it is positive.

[Roj]

Seems to me there is something very revealing about this statement...and I'm not certain it is positive.
I'll make it simple for everyone:

It's Not.

[Artie]

One of the things we have to remember . . . why was Ms. Corby going to Indonesia? Why does anyone go to Indonesia? Why do they have the power they do? Because they have industry and money. Lots of money.

Where does it come from? Us.

Next time you go to Wal Mart, or hell, the next time you buy a Fender guitar, you might want to see where you're sending your money to, and who and what you're supporting.

[acushla]

I have heard it said that the Australian government are negotiating with the Indonesian government for a prisoner exchange.

At this point I would consider the Indonesians to be nothing more than a bunch of thugs/terrorists and now that they have revealed themselves as such should be dealt with accordingly by the International community.

Alas...I am only too aware of the futility of that hope.

[Protocol]

I have heard it said that the Australian government are negotiating with the Indonesian government for a prisoner exchange.
Alas...I am only too aware of the futility of that hope.
acushla, I am not sure if exchange is the right term, but the OZ government is currently negotiating with the Indonesian government on a prisoner transfer scheme to allow Aussies convicted in Indonesia to serve out their time in Oz. Obviously, if they are given the death penalty, then this won't happen. Australia is opposed to capital punishment.

[Shadowraven]

It's an all too sad truth that most western governments now serve expediancy more than they do their citizens. They always take the easy route, instead of taking the right one. If you expect your government to be any real help to you when you are treated unjustly overseas, don't count on it. Not only won't they support your rights, they won't try to help or protect you when you need it. Roj gave a perfect example of that.

Austrailia's government may be backward, but it doesn't sound any worse than the US government does. That's the sad part. The US government is a great example of how not to run a country. Too bad more people don't see it.

As Roj said, it's not a good thing.

[Protocol]

Between it's puritanical censorship rules and now this, I do believe Oz needs to join the 21st Centruy.

Sorry - that just how I see it...
I cannot really agree that the Australian government is behind other countries in censorship or in many other things. In a number of ways I think it is a long way ahead of other western countries. Why do so many people from around the world flock to Sydney each year (not me :cheerful: ) for the gay and lesbian mardi gras. And I cannot remember the last time a movie has been censored in theatre or on television in Oz. Don't let me get started on the booming (legal) sex industry here lol. :cheeky:
In some states in Oz (including the nations capital), marijuana is decriminalised. This is the very same thing that Schapelle Corby has her life on the line for in Indonesia.

[acushla]

acushla, I am not sure if exchange is the right term, but the OZ government is currently negotiating with the Indonesian government on a prisoner transfer scheme to allow Aussies convicted in Indonesia to serve out their time in Oz. Obviously, if they are given the death penalty, then this won't happen. Australia is opposed to capital punishment.

Could you elaborate on this? Thanks.

[acushla]

Don't let me get started on the booming (legal) sex industry here lol. :cheeky:

What is the name of the main airport in Australia and how do you spell it?

[Protocol]

Could you elaborate on this? Thanks.
acushla. Read the news article below. It should give you a summary of the Australian governments involvement (or lack of) in the case.


Govt talks to lift Corby transfer hopes
May 30, 2005 - 7:40PM

Australia will send a team of negotiators to Indonesia next week to thrash out a prisoner transfer deal which could allow Schapelle Corby to serve part of her sentence on home soil.

News of the talks comes amid outrage at the 20-year sentence handed down by a Bali court to Corby after she was found guilty of smuggling 4.1kg of marijuana into Indonesia.

Some of her supporters have demanded refunds of their donations to Indonesian victims of the Boxing Day tsunami and a new website urges Australians to boycott the Bali.

But the federal government has appealed for calm, warning that attacks on Indonesia would not help Corby.

Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said a draft agreement on prisoner exchanges had been sent to the Indonesian government, with formal talks to start next Monday.

Mr Downer spent 40 minutes on the phone to his Indonesian counterpart Hassan Wirajuda discussing the sentence imposed on the 27-year-old Gold Coast beauty student.

"I explained to him that in Australia we obviously accepted the Indonesian legal processes but that there was substantial concern in Australia about this issue," Mr Downer said.

"He said that he was aware of the issue and aware of some of the controversy in Australia.

"He did say that Indonesia would be willing to negotiate a prisoner transfer agreement and I explained to him that our team would be up there at the beginning of next week."

A new website, BanBali.com, has sprung up urging Australians to boycott the resort island.

But Mr Downer said attacks on Indonesia would not help Corby.

"It is important that people who wish to campaign for Schapelle Corby remember that, ultimately, the authorities they have to convince are the Indonesian judicial authorities," he said.

Labor has written to Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono asking Corby be given a pardon.

But Prime Minister Mr Howard criticised the move, saying it was absurd to make such a request when Corby's appeal against the sentence had not yet been heard.

"Some people will think that I can fix this because this country gave $1 billion in assistance to Indonesia in the wake of the tsunami...," he told Macquarie Radio.

"I believe the fairest go we can give this girl at the moment is to allow the appeal process to go ahead."

Mr Howard also rejected suggestions Australia was not actively supporting Corby because of its relationship with Indonesia.

"That relationship is important, but so is a fair go for this girl," he said.

Corby's legal team spent the day locked in talks about an appeal, a move which could result in Corby's sentence being increased.

Her Australian lawyer Robin Tampoe said they were considering a suggestion by Brisbane barrister Julian Wagner to lodge their appeal with Indonesia's Constitutional Court rather than the High Court.

Mr Wagner argues comments by Bali chief judge Linton Sirait before Corby's sentence was handed down showed the Denpasar court was biased because of his suggestion that she had to prove her innocence.

Barrister Tom Percy, one of two QCs who have been asked to help Corby's appeal, said he believed she was innocent but would have got a better result if there had been less media hype about her case.

"I have no doubt at all that other people who have got better results over there because the whole matter was kept a lot quieter," he told ABC radio.

But Mr Percy, who has begun talks with Corby's lawyers about the appeal, said he did not blame her defence team for the way they handled her trial.

[acushla]

One of the things we have to remember . . . why was Ms. Corby going to Indonesia? Why does anyone go to Indonesia? Why do they have the power they do? Because they have industry and money. Lots of money.

Where does it come from? Us.

Next time you go to Wal Mart, or hell, the next time you buy a Fender guitar, you might want to see where you're sending your money to, and who and what you're supporting.

Call me thick headed (I've been called much worse) but I honestly do not understand the relevance of this post.

Why was Ms. Corby going to Indonesia? One would assume she was going for a vacation. I do not understand the leap to 'power....because they have industry and money. Lots of money.' Unless Ms. Corby was planning a tour of the industrial areas and a walk through various manufacturing plants, which I would be willing to bet money she wasn't...then, as I have already stated, I fail to see the connection between this and her travel plans.

The next time I go to Evil-Mart (copyright Biggman15) will be the same day as when SONY comes out and apologies for it's past behaviour and announces it is now in the process of making its entire catalogue available for free download. So at the earliest I would put this at the day after tomorrow.

For the record I recently heard that Evil-Mart was the largest single importer of goods from China. So I do not know what sort of shelf space they have left over for Indonesia.

At the risk of having my next post in response to your post a 'eating crow' post...what the hell are you talking about?

[acushla]

Mr Howard also rejected suggestions Australia was not actively supporting Corby because of its relationship with Indonesia.acushla. Read the news article below. It should give you a summary of the Australian governments involvement (or lack of) in the case.

First of all a thank you for the detailed list of events as they have recently unfolded.

With all due respect it would seem a complete charade is being played out under the guise of 'diplomatic' niceties...addressing all of the issues which would arise out of a legitimate case based on its own merits.

The problem, as I see it, is that no legitimate case exists...this is an abuse of power pure and simple...and THAT is the issue that needs to be addressed...and needs to be addressed in a forceful all or nothing, no holds barred, no 'negotiations'...give her back now or else...and a 'or else' that not only has teeth, but fangs and tusks and claws as well.

Enough of the niceties already.

There were several telling statements:

Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said a draft agreement on prisoner exchanges had been sent to the Indonesian government, with formal talks to start next Monday.

I'd like to see more on this topic...makes you wonder who Indonesia would like returned to its country.

"I explained to him that in Australia we obviously accepted the Indonesian legal processes but that there was substantial concern in Australia about this issue," Mr Downer said.

For shame Australia...a golden opportunity to express outrage at a system that the entire world (save perhaps North Korea and the two Congo's) deems as corrupt at best...and instead they pander to the idea that it is 'legit'.

Prime Minister Howard also rejected suggestions Australia was not actively supporting Corby because of its relationship with Indonesia.

So what exactly was Australia's relationship with Indonesia prior to this incident?

Corby's legal team spent the day locked in talks about an appeal, a move which could result in Corby's sentence being increased.

I doubt I need make any comment on this statement.

Barrister Tom Percy, one of two QCs who have been asked to help Corby's appeal, said he believed she was innocent but would have got a better result if there had been less media hype about her case.

Hu-huh. Right.

[Willow of Oz]

What is the name of the main airport in Australia and how do you spell it?

Tullamarine is the name of the main Melbourne airport. Whether that's what you are after or not ...

[acushla]

Tullamarine is the name of the main Melbourne airport. Whether that's what you are after or not ...

...and how far is it from the airport to the booming (legal) sex industry that Protocol is talking about?

How much would it cost by taxi to get there?

My friend wants to know.

[Willow of Oz]

I cannot really agree that the Australian government is behind other countries in censorship or in many other things. In a number of ways I think it is a long way ahead of other western countries. Why do so many people from around the world flock to Sydney each year (not me :cheerful: ) for the gay and lesbian mardi gras. And I cannot remember the last time a movie has been censored in theatre or on television in Oz. Don't let me get started on the booming (legal) sex industry here lol. :cheeky:
In some states in Oz (including the nations capital), marijuana is decriminalised. This is the very same thing that Schapelle Corby has her life on the line for in Indonesia.

No one said that our government is *behind* others. In fact, we seem to have some agreement that there are others keeping us company.

The G&L mardi gras is certainly a strong point for us, and gets plenty of coverage (at least nationally).

Movies do get refused, but not often. Others will get cut. Examples off the top of my head: Baise moi and Ken Park (I think both had releases which were subsequently pulled).
To elaborate: our rating system goes (basically) from
G (general)
PG (parental guidance recommended). Anyone can still go in and see the movie at the cinema.
M (mature, 15+). Anyone can still go in and see the movie at the cinema.
MA (mature, 15+ only). Must be 15+ to see in the cinema. Top rating for free-to-air TV (though there is also AV for tv, which basically means adult violence but is otherwise much the same).
R (restricted 18+). Must be 18+ to see at the cinema.
X (restricted 18+). Only in the Australian Capital Territory (ACT).

To get an idea of how our ratings align with those of your country:
Most movies rate as M, including The Matrix, LOTR, SW Ep3.
MA would include stuff like Blade, Passion of the Christ, Kill Bill part 2.
R would include stuff like Kill Bill part 1, Basic Instinct and most of the Friday the 13ths.
R is not allowed to show actual penetration during sex scenes.
Arguably, a PG rating may harm your sales, since it might be seen as something for younger viewers - M seems rather all-encompasing.

We are also one of the only western nations without an R rating for games. Only kids enjoy games :-)

Decriminalisation of marijuana is in very few states - basically south australia and our two mainland territories, the NT and the ACT. The population of the nation's capital, the ACT, is only 320K (out of 20 million nationally) with the Northern Territory having even fewer people, so these laws actually apply to very few people.

Gun laws are very strict (you'll pick that up if you watch Lost). Basically you can't go around carrying a gun. You can get a gun licence, but you can't have anything like an automatic. Basically farming type stuff.

We are not allowed to make copies of stuff. There are no personal backups. Taping stuff off tv and radio is, I believe, technically not allowed (but obviously unenforced). You are not allowed to back up DVDs or software (if by all means, if you have evidence to the contrary...)

We also don't have a Bill of Rights, though there is one sentence in the constitution which could pass for it in a pinch.

And that's a summary of Oz. Ahem. (as he breaks into a patriotic rendition of the national anthem...)

[Willow of Oz]

...and how far is it from the airport to the booming (legal) sex industry that Protocol is talking about?

How much would it cost by taxi to get there?

My friend wants to know.

taxi?? taxi??
sheesh, give the air stewardesses a fiver ...

[acushla]

We also don't have a Bill of Rights, though there is one sentence in the constitution which could pass for it in a pinch.


You big tease you....going to tell us there is one sentence...just not going to tell us what it is.

Shame, shame, shame.

[Protocol]

taxi?? taxi??
sheesh, give the air stewardesses a fiver ...
Take Willow straight to Kings Cross. AND STEP ON IT DRIVER. :cheeky:

lol. I think this thread has gone off course.

Protocol gives this thread a gentle nudge with his elbow to steer it back on course.

[acushla]

Take Willow straight to Kings Cross. AND STEP ON IT DRIVER. :cheeky:

lol. I think this thread has gone off course.

[/COLOR]

See Joke thread.

[Shadowraven]

I suspect "Fair Trial" in Indonesia means about the same as "Compassionate Conservative" does for politicians in the U.S. Both are an oxymoron, at least from what I can see.

Acushla pretty much covered what I think here. There is no way that you can call the Indonesian dictatorship "fair" in any way. That's a sad joke. It's a little country, with a lot to prove in that it "can't be pushed around". That or it's trying to make an example of one form or another here using Ms. Corby. You can't take any legal system seriously that makes you "prove your innocence". That's nearly impossible. That's why most civilized countries presume innocence in court to begin with.

You only need to keep up with the news to figure out that Indonesia does not qualify as civilized yet.

[krazyd]

I suspect "Fair Trial" in Indonesia means about the same as "Compassionate Conservative" does for politicians in the U.S. Both are an oxymoron, at least from what I can see.

Acushla pretty much covered what I think here. There is no way that you can call the Indonesian dictatorship "fair" in any way. That's a sad joke. It's a little country, with a lot to prove in that it "can't be pushed around". That or it's trying to make an example of one form or another here using Ms. Corby. You can't take any legal system seriously that makes you "prove your innocence". That's nearly impossible. That's why most civilized countries presume innocence in court to begin with.

You only need to keep up with the news to figure out that Indonesia does not qualify as civilized yet.
There is an interesting discussion of the Indonesian legal system here (http://www.theswanker.com/macammacam/2005/06/indonesias_lega.html), where the director of the Asian Law Centre at the University of Melbourne clearly states that the 'presumption of guilt' is a furphy cooked up by the Australian media.

[Todd The Kiwi]

in bad taste ? (http://www.xperimental.geek.nz/countdown.htm) or not :cross-eye

[Willow of Oz]

US military says guilty until proven innocent. Perhaps the militaries of other countries too. I know, I know, different circumstances: I just thought it was worth mentioning.

[Protocol]

The prosecutors are already saying that her appeal will fail (http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1274&storyid=3295689). Even before it gets to court.

[Roj]

The prosecutors are already saying that her appeal will fail (http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story.jsp?sectionid=1274&storyid=3295689). Even before it gets to court.
Whaddya expect in a kangaroo court run by chimps...

[Protocol]

Interesting story here (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15637402%255E662,00.html) about Police uncovering a jailbreak plan.

[Shadowraven]

Interesting story here (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15637402%255E662,00.html) about Police uncovering a jailbreak plan.
I wonder which government individual "engineered" that story. What a ridiculous group of small minded bastards that run that country. Even the "Bush-Pig" and his cronies aren't that bad ....yet.

As for her appeal failing, that's bloody obvious. The original conviction was a joke, why should the appeal be any different? Little tinpot dictators have already made up the sh*t that passes for their minds anyway.

[acushla]

Interesting story here (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15637402%255E662,00.html) about Police uncovering a jailbreak plan.

As a Canadian I am suspect of any newspaper which has the word 'Sun' in its title.

[Artie]

Call me thick headed (I've been called much worse) but I honestly do not understand the relevance of this post.

At the risk of having my next post in response to your post a 'eating crow' post...what the hell are you talking about?

No "crow-eating" should be necessary. :cheeky:

I probably wasn't clear on the point I was trying to make, which is simply . . . why would Indonesia appear on anyone's radar as a place to travel to, or do business with? I'm guessing that it's simply because they have a lot of money and commerce now due to the large amount of revenue we send them. And thats due to their cheap labor. In a 'round-the-back, back-handed kinda way, we (who spend money there), are somewhat responsible for their power and arrogance.

It wouldn't surprise me if I still wasn't making my point well. :ermm:

Artie

[Shadowraven]

As a Canadian I am suspect of any newspaper which has the word 'Sun' in its title.
:silly: :laugh: :rolleyes:

[Shadowraven]

No "crow-eating" should be necessary. :cheeky:

I probably wasn't clear on the point I was trying to make, which is simply . . . why would Indonesia appear on anyone's radar as a place to travel to, or do business with? I'm guessing that it's simply because they have a lot of money and commerce now due to the large amount of revenue we send them. And thats due to their cheap labor. In a 'round-the-back, back-handed kinda way, we (who spend money there), are somewhat responsible for their power and arrogance.

It wouldn't surprise me if I still wasn't making my point well. :ermm:

Artie

I'm sure we are partly responsible. At least our corporations are.

As for traveling there, I have no desire to ever see their country. The descriptions of it's problems in the news are more than enough for me. What a mess.

[acushla]

Hands up those who think that this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/05/AR2005110500395.html is simply the Australian Government retaliating in light of recent events.

Can't bomb them? Then cut off a major source of income.


Creative thinking at its best. Kudos.

[Protocol]

Hands up those who think that this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/05/AR2005110500395.html is simply the Australian Government retaliating in light of recent events.

Can't bomb them? Then cut off a major source of income.


Creative thinking at its best. Kudos.
There are so many safer choices for an Aussie to go on holidays than Indonesia. Not sure why anyone would want to go there in the present climate. It is not just the terrorists intent on making a statement to Aussies. The Indonesian government appears hell bent on doing it also. Why would you spend money going there? Australia has pledged billions of dollars to the country in recent months. I am a bit concerned where we are spending this money considering recent events. :paranoid:

[B.E.L.B.H.D.]

Entering this thread a bit late, I recently came across this image:

Indonesian Monopoly (http://photos1.blogger.com/img/111/943/1024/Indonesianmonopoly.jpg)

[acushla]

There are so many safer choices for an Aussie to go on holidays than Indonesia. Not sure why anyone would want to go there in the present climate. It is not just the terrorists intent on making a statement to Aussies. The Indonesian government appears hell bent on doing it also. Why would you spend money going there? Australia has pledged billions of dollars to the country in recent months. I am a bit concerned where we are spending this money considering recent events. :paranoid:
What's the opposite of LOL?

I am speechless to learn Australia gives them one cent let alone billions of dollars.

Truly shameful...in light of this Australia shares in some of the responsibility. It would be akin to the USA giving aid to Al-Qaeda.

Kudos withdrawn...bomb them (Does Austrilia have an Air Force?) :silly:

[acushla]

Entering this thread a bit late, I recently came across this image:

Indonesian Monopoly (http://photos1.blogger.com/img/111/943/1024/Indonesianmonopoly.jpg)

ERROR.

[Willow of Oz]

Truly shameful...in light of this Australia shares in some of the responsibility. It would be akin to the USA giving aid to Al-Qaeda.

:silly:

[krazyd]

Here's an interesting transcript showing exactly where Australia's aid dollars end up:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20051014&articleId=1085

It's a bit of a read, but worth it especially for any interested Australians. Wahid's spectulation is especially scary. I wish I'd seen this.

[Protocol]

Entering this thread a bit late, I recently came across this image:

Indonesian Monopoly (http://photos1.blogger.com/img/111/943/1024/Indonesianmonopoly.jpg)
Is this (http://www.sighost.us/members/KarlQuark/Images/monopoly.jpg) the pic you were trying to post? :cheeky:

[acushla]

Is this (http://www.sighost.us/members/KarlQuark/Images/monopoly.jpg) the pic you were trying to post? :cheeky:
ERROR

[acushla]

It's a bit of a read, but worth it especially for any interested Australians. Wahid's spectulation is especially scary. I wish I'd seen this.
A 'bit of a read'? More like chapter one of a book. I think I'll just wait for the movie. :laugh:

What I have read is interesting. In fact, the site itself looks very interesting...and from Canada no less!

[Protocol]

ERROR
Are you having trouble displaying pictures? :cheeky:

http://www.sighost.us/members/KarlQuark/Images/monopoly.jpg

[acushla]

Are you having trouble displaying pictures? :cheeky:

[/IMG]
Pretty funny. :silly:

To answer your question...yes...neither yours or B.E.L.B.H.D.'s link worked for me.

I would understand that this might have been one of those situations where certain web pages are not designed for OPERA...except I was not able to see it in MAXTHON either. When this happens I assume that either the page is no longer available or the web site itself is having problems.

[Todd The Kiwi]

hey! behave yourselves! :cheeky: