Splitting this off myself, B4 it goes too far...

[Shadowraven]

acushla
Rap music and Black culture.


Living in Toronto I often drive down to enjoy THE BEST CHICKEN WINGS IN THE WORLD at Frank and Teresa's ANCHOR BAR (features Jazz...GOOGLE it if you want to learn more)...and although the two cities are not that far apart in terms of miles...they are light years apart in the realities of city life.

One observation I have made over the years is how the Black community, to a great extent, cocoon themselves within society at large...meaning they stick to their own culture which for the children growing up means a steady diet of Rap, Hip Hop and Gangsta' rap which influences everything from clothing to thinking.Very rare to find within that culture people listening to classical, rock, or anything that isn't 'black'.

Personally I feel sad in a sense...because by not experiencing anything different...then there is no growth.

I have considered to stop writing this several times...including now...because I am not expressing what I want to say very well...and I know all this can be easily mis-interpreted.

If, as a child, all you see are rap videos with lots of chains and fast cars and faster woman and allusions to drugs and guns...if that is all you see...and you think this is what you want...and your not seeing anything else...what chance do you have?

So in the end I see a great majority of rap music to be a very negative influence...with possible exceptions of groups like Blackalicious or The Roots (to name but two) but how many here have heard of them as opposed to how many here have heard of 50 cents, Snoop Dog (who beat a murder rap a la OJ), Tupac, Mr BIG etc.?

No a positive image.

What you've said here I feel to be essentially correct, and is one of the reasons I hate Rap "music". I see what Jzrok said so eloquently and agree with it, but what acushla said hits the nail square on the head. The black community does seem to set itself apart and be particularly insular. I see that everyday at work. The problem being that if you don't get exposed to a wide variety of views, your worldview becomes very narrow. All this negative energy and bad imagery can't be good for anybody. Much less if you live in, or around bad events. This, I believe, contributes to the continuing misunderstandings between the races. How can I make this assumption? I can make it because, in my work, I have extensive contact with all types of people and it is what I see. I see gentleman who have no familiarity with art, history, music, or science. This, I am told, is because when they do attempt to go outside the community, they are not consdered "black enough". Or they are considered betrayers of their race. Insane. They are compelled by peer pressure to act "cool". You see this everywhere, but I see it particularly strongly in thier community. Makes it hard for them to break out and be different. I nomally tend to believe that different is good.

I believe in taking every person as an individual when I meet them, so don't make any negative assumptions here on what you think I'm saying. I work with these gentlemen everyday, and if I had any negative assumptions to begin with, I could not do my job effectively. And I'm good at what I do.

[acushla]

They are compelled by peer pressure to act "cool". You see this everywhere, but I see it particularly strongly in thier community. Makes it hard for them to break out and be different. I nomally tend to believe that different is good.

An excellent perspective on all of this is a segment in the Chris Rock HBO special called 'Bigger, Blacker and Better' (I think it's called that.) He does a segment on why he hates a certain community within black society. Worth a listen if you want an unbiased perspective.

I once asked this before...is there a protocal for using 'Spell check' and correcting the body of the quote within your reply. In other words...if I was to correct what it finds...is that wrong?

[Roj]

If, as a child, all you see are rap videos with lots of chains and fast cars and faster woman and allusions to drugs and guns...if that is all you see...and you think this is what you want...and your not seeing anything else...what chance do you have?

It's not just the black community. Ever check out the "wiggas", as they are referred to at my daughter's high school? All those little white boys trying desperately to act ghetto? What makes it all the more hysterically funny is that the majority of them come from middle to upper class homes.

The whole "bling bling" schtick and the rest of the crap doesn't only rub off on the black community.

Rap can be very uplifting. The last year saw a couple of positive messages from Naz and Black Eyed Peas. Then you have 50 Cent and the whole "me an' da crew" BS. Booooringggg...

In the beginning, rap was not what it is today. I know because I was there, spinning records in the clubs when the first mainstream rap single burst upon the public: "The Rapper's Delight". Back then, rap was about party people, fun, some bravado (also fun) and occasionally a cold hard dose of reality: "The Message" / "Gangsta's Paradise" / "White Lines (Don't Do It)". Sometimes it still is, with a healthy dose of biting social comment: "Where Is The Love" / "I Can" / "White America".

Unfortunately, today the vast majority of it is just a beat and people hyped on the "The Life" and their own dicks (no, I'm not gonna be politically correct - that just ain't my style, knowhatimean?).

It's a shame because the occasional flashes of brilliance highlight what could be, not what the posers generally pander as "whut is".

[Shadowraven]

No arguement there Roj. It does effect everyone who listens/caters to it.

But, you helped prove my point. The "wiggas" (I call them wannbes) are generally from middle to upper class families. They are just plain, old everyday morons. But they get the chance to be exposed to other things beside a negative message and relentless exposure to those messages. True enough that some "wiggas" may have a family life that sucks, but can that really compare? They aren't held into an insular community where their very identity depends on their conformist behavior. Yes they do experience peer pressure, but in my experience not to the same degree. Maybe you've seen the same things already, I can't say. I can only say that any person locked into a closed community they can't escape from is going to have problems.

[Roj]

Maybe you've seen the same things already, I can't say. I can only say that any person locked into a closed community they can't escape from is going to have problems.
Look up the lyrics to "The Message" by Grandmaster Flash And The furious Five. You'll find that your observations were noted and emoted about in a rap by members of the black community some 25 years ago.

[Shadowraven]

I know, that is what helps make this situation so awful. People know what is going on, but nothing changes.

You were right Roj when you said that Rap didn't start out this way. But it has been taken over by the "gangstas" and hustlers who don't care what effect they have. Just so long as the dollars keep rollin' in. There are far to many in the community that believe that money is the only thing that is important in this world. Don't get me wrong, it is important, but there are other things that matter more than money.

That is what has made me hate the genre so much. Even though I never really cared for much of it, there are gems there. But most of the "songs" are the worst pieces of tripe I've ever heard and the messages are appalling. For one thing treating women like trash and calling them "my bitch" is hardly a shining example to us all. Rapping about killing people, selling drugs, or gang fights may sell records, but it sends a terrible messsage to the people listening to it.

[acushla]

If, as a child, all you see are rap videos with lots of chains and fast cars and faster woman and allusions to drugs and guns...if that is all you see...and you think this is what you want...and your not seeing anything else...what chance do you have?

It's not just the black community. Ever check out the "wiggas", as they are referred to at my daughter's high school? All those little white boys trying desperately to act ghetto? What makes it all the more hysterically funny is that the majority of them come from middle to upper class homes.

The whole "bling bling" schtick and the rest of the crap doesn't only rub off on the black community.

I see a basic flaw here...Ever check out the "wiggas", as they are referred to at my daughter's high school? All those little white boys trying desperately to act ghetto?

All these little white boys trying....for better or worse, that trying is a choice...in the black community...generally speaking...it is not a choice. When most of those little white boys grow out of this 'phase' and begin pursuing other options...they have simply step 'back in' to their white world, if you will. No such choice for the black youth of the same age.

For one it is a game...for the other it is their lives.

[Shadowraven]

I see a basic flaw here...Ever check out the "wiggas", as they are referred to at my daughter's high school? All those little white boys trying desperately to act ghetto?

All these little white boys trying....for better or worse, that trying is a choice...in the black community...generally speaking...it is not a choice. When most of those little white boys grow out of this 'phase' and begin pursuing other options...they have simply step 'back in' to their white world, if you will. No such choice for the black youth of the same age.

For one it is a game...for the other it is their lives.

Which is just exactly what I am saying. They don't get a choice. For most their choices are already made for them. Good or Bad.

[Roj]

I see a basic flaw here...Ever check out the "wiggas", as they are referred to at my daughter's high school? All those little white boys trying desperately to act ghetto?

All these little white boys trying....for better or worse, that trying is a choice...in the black community...generally speaking...it is not a choice. When most of those little white boys grow out of this 'phase' and begin pursuing other options...they have simply step 'back in' to their white world, if you will. No such choice for the black youth of the same age.

For one it is a game...for the other it is their lives.
No flaw - the basic point is still valid. It *does* affect communities other than the black community, but for those communities the effect is only temporary based on circumstances and environment. That doesn't change the fact that there was an effect - only the longevity of said effect.

That's going to bring up another point likely to provoke even MORE controversy and it's a pet peeve of mine, namely the differences between the black man who came to the United States from the Carribean and the black man who was born and grew up in the United States. There is a very definite difference in attitude but for now, we'll leave that aside for another time (thread split Mark III perhaps?).

[acushla]

No flaw - the basic point is still valid. It *does* affect communities other than the black community, but for those communities the effect is only temporary based on circumstances and environment. That doesn't change the fact that there was an effect - only the longevity of said effect.

That's going to bring up another point likely to provoke even MORE controversy and it's a pet peeve of mine, namely the differences between the black man who came to the United States from the Carribean and the black man who was born and grew up in the United States. There is a very definite difference in attitude but for now, we'll leave that aside for another time (thread split Mark III perhaps?).

Split it off...let's go!

[Roj]

Split it off...let's go!
Some other time - I have neither the time nor the inclination at present. :)

[Shadowraven]

No flaw - the basic point is still valid. It *does* affect communities other than the black community, but for those communities the effect is only temporary based on circumstances and environment. That doesn't change the fact that there was an effect - only the longevity of said effect.

That's going to bring up another point likely to provoke even MORE controversy and it's a pet peeve of mine, namely the differences between the black man who came to the United States from the Carribean and the black man who was born and grew up in the United States. There is a very definite difference in attitude but for now, we'll leave that aside for another time (thread split Mark III perhaps?).

I know exactly what you are referring to, and you're right. There's a big difference between the two that is not at all hard to see.

End of story.