Cost Of War

[appurve]

Check out the Cost of War in Iraq Per Second

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar/index.html

The War in Iraq Cost the United States

When i checked it was:

$151,234,008,707

How much it is when you check?

But i think the Marine is doing good job even though i am not an American i support the marine but not the war and not Bush.

[Artie]

Sigh . . . its not the "cost of war"! Its a cute little javascript counter. If the war ends right now, and all spending is halted, that little counter will keep on keeping on. Like the little engine that could.

Its cute. It has no basis in reality.

Also, the dollar figure is based partly on military salaries and wages. The supposition being that all those soldiers, (and subsequent supplies), would be sent home, unemployed, if there was no war. Its a darn shame that these groups can never present their side of an issue without "spinning" the facts. It makes substantive discussions somewhat futile. :disappoin

[hedge]

Alright, so the counter is probably rather inaccurate, but i think its safe to assume that at least 100+ billion has already been spent on the war.
Now, imagine what that could achieve if invested into health care, apprenticeships etc etc etc etc...

[Artie]

I agree. But we're just talking about the cost of maintaining a government . . . that has been growing in leaps and bounds since its inception. Under both Democratic and Republican leadership.

There's lots of money for lots of things, if we didn't have to deal with reality. ;)

[madjo]

yes, but that amount of money (which was spent, and is being spend on the war) could have solved a lot of problems on your national issues... Such as health-care, job-opportunities and such...

I wish I had 100 billion dollars...
or 100,000,000,000,000 dollars (if I'm not mistaken, could be off a few zeros)

[Artie]

True, but do we just say: "Ok. Due to financial considerations, we'll never get involved militarily again"? If you can get the worlds Hitler's, Pol Pot's, Saddams, et al., to agree with that, I'm all for it. But its not reality.

Keep in mind too, that if we all just stopped stealing from each other, we'ld have all that same money. Know how much theft costs us all every year?

If you can't convince your brothers to stop stealing your hubcaps, how in the heck do we convince Saddam?

[rorythedog]

But Saddam wasn't "stealing your hubcaps"!

[jkrzok]

True, but do we just say: "Ok. Due to financial considerations, we'll never get involved militarily again"? If you can get the worlds Hitler's, Pol Pot's, Saddams, et al., to agree with that, I'm all for it. But its not reality.

Keep in mind too, that if we all just stopped stealing from each other, we'ld have all that same money. Know how much theft costs us all every year?

If you can't convince your brothers to stop stealing your hubcaps, how in the heck do we convince Saddam?

If it was just about the money, Artie might be right even though he would still be wrong.

What about the very real cost of 1,000 (plus 19 today) US troops? Unknown numbers of Iraqi civilians? Heck, even throw in the dead Iraqi military/police, both Saddam's and post-Saddam. There were some 'coalition' troops killed as well. What is the cost of US soldiers families celebrating a fearful Christmas, not knowing if their loved ones will be home next year? What is the cost to a local Buffalo woman, all of 19 or so, who lost her husband about a month ago in Iraq? Who is pregnant. With twins. Due about Christmas.

And Donald Rumsfeld won't even get a cramp signing her condolence letter.

How do we cost out the very real hit our national credibility took? After Bush's lies about WMD and Saddam's supposed threat to world security, do you think anyone will take us seriously when we do face a real threat?

What will be the cost of the further radicalization of Islamic youth this war will cause? Does anyone think that the youth of the Middle East is buying the sunshine Bush and Rumsfeld et.al are trying to blow up the world's ass? Or do you think they see the very real rubble Iraq is now built of? Do you think they see the innocent Iraqi dead whose only crime was coming between the might of the US military and Saddam? Do you think they see that same jack-booted US military and their Quislings trying to impose George Bush's will on a fellow Islamic nation?

What do you suppose they're going to do about it?

I believe a whole-hearted embrace of democracy and the American way of life is not a consideration.

I know the reply. Sacrifices have to be made. The cost of liberty is high. You have to break some eggs to make an omelet. Yada Yada.

And that is right. If the cause is right. I honor the sacrifices made by my father's generation in the fight against Fascism. I had family in the camps. I can still see remnants of the pain Hitler and his Nazi thugs caused them and the rest of my family. The war waged by the 'Greatest Generation" was right as the Fascists posed a very real threat to not just my family but the entire world.

Iraq was not right. Saddam was no longer a threat. Yes he was trying but was there any chance for success? Containment was working. His military was emasculated. He had no WMD. He had no ties to the real enemy of the day, Al-Quada and associated groups. What really were we fighting for?

So there's this lady, a girl really. She's pregant with twins. Due any day now. But you know, thanks to this war their daddy's not coming home. Those kids will never know what sort of man their daddy was. A hero I suppose. But dead heroes don't make good daddys.

My God we can not talk about dollars when we talk about the cost of this war.

[Sheepeh]

A great point, very well made.

[Artie]

No, actually its not a good point. First of all, I'm not sure why you're quoting me. I thought it was clear that I'm the one person in this thread argueing against analyzing the war on the basis of cost or money.

I don't draw an imaginary line on the ground, and care about the folks on my side of the line, and not for those on the other. Have you seen the reports of the mass graves, with 10's of thousands of bodies? WHo can measure how many lives have been saved by taking out Saddam. Who can measure the lives saved by the simple fact that there hasn't been any terrorist attacks in America since 911?

And you continue to make completely incorrect statements:

Bush didn't lie about WMD's. Its been more than established that that information came from a flawed British intelligence report - backed by FBI and CIA reports.

The connection between Saddam and Al Queda has been very well established. It was covered extensively in the 911 report and many other places. How can you not be aware of this?

"Radicalized" Iraqi youth will grow up in a place where they might be free to be "radicalized". Did you hear the recent news story of the guy having trouble starting construction of his mall, becuase the cost of land in Iraq doubled since Bush got re-elected? Hmmm . . . commercial property worth more now. I would imagine thats because they now have hope of growing and prospering.

And again, this is what makes these discussions so frustrating. Its almost like people base their facts on their views, rather than their views on the facts. :disappoin

[Qaz]

I don't draw an imaginary line on the ground, and care about the folks on my side of the line, and not for those on the other. Have you seen the reports of the mass graves, with 10's of thousands of bodies? WHo can measure how many lives have been saved by taking out Saddam.
The money used on war could have been used elsewhere and there gained just as many saved lives. Yeah, I still stick to the point that Iraq's internal business isn't America's business.

Who can measure the lives saved by the simple fact that there hasn't been any terrorist attacks in America since 911?
How many there have been overall? I don't see how war in Iraq has prevented them.


Bush didn't lie about WMD's. Its been more than established that that >information came from a flawed British intelligence report - backed by FBI and CIA reports.
Not really much better reason, is it?

[jawpr]

No, actually its not a good point. First of all, I'm not sure why you're quoting me. I thought it was clear that I'm the one person in this thread argueing against analyzing the war on the basis of cost or money.

I don't draw an imaginary line on the ground, and care about the folks on my side of the line, and not for those on the other. Have you seen the reports of the mass graves, with 10's of thousands of bodies? WHo can measure how many lives have been saved by taking out Saddam. Who can measure the lives saved by the simple fact that there hasn't been any terrorist attacks in America since 911?

And you continue to make completely incorrect statements:

Bush didn't lie about WMD's. Its been more than established that that information came from a flawed British intelligence report - backed by FBI and CIA reports.

The connection between Saddam and Al Queda has been very well established. It was covered extensively in the 911 report and many other places. How can you not be aware of this?

"Radicalized" Iraqi youth will grow up in a place where they might be free to be "radicalized". Did you hear the recent news story of the guy having trouble starting construction of his mall, becuase the cost of land in Iraq doubled since Bush got re-elected? Hmmm . . . commercial property worth more now. I would imagine thats because they now have hope of growing and prospering.

And again, this is what makes these discussions so frustrating. Its almost like people base their facts on their views, rather than their views on the facts. :disappoin

First one I have seen on this forum that talked like they had any wisdom at all of the present world conditions and based their opions on facts rather than their own warped,prejudiced views. Sounds like they only read Michael Moore's reports. They even had Bin Laden captured ready to be reported right before the election to get Bush elected. Oh well, it's like I said before, one only has to read a small portion of this forum to see their true feelings about americans and especially americans that happen to be Christians. Very sorrow this view seems to dominate all the threads concerning America and those that are Christians. Wonder how they would feel if we run their country,their political leader,their personal religion down to the level they have put ours? Well, I should have continued to keep my silence as I have in the past for it is impossible to express an opion of other people's beliefs and choices without causing friction,hurt or personal harm and that is most certainly not something I want to do. Back to SILENCE.
MERRY CHRISTMAS,EVERYONE AND HOPE EACH ONE HAS A VERY HAPPY AND PROPEREOUS NEW YEAR!

[rorythedog]

First one I have seen on this forum that talked like they had any wisdom at all of the present world conditions and based their opions on facts rather than their own warped,prejudiced views. Sounds like they only read Michael Moore's reports. They even had Bin Laden captured ready to be reported right before the election to get Bush elected. Oh well, it's like I said before, one only has to read a small portion of this forum to see their true feelings about americans and especially americans that happen to be Christians. Very sorrow this view seems to dominate all the threads concerning America and those that are Christians. Wonder how they would feel if we run their country,their political leader,their personal religion down to the level they have put ours? Well, I should have continued to keep my silence as I have in the past for it is impossible to express an opion of other people's beliefs and choices without causing friction,hurt or personal harm and that is most certainly not something I want to do. Back to SILENCE.
MERRY CHRISTMAS,EVERYONE AND HOPE EACH ONE HAS A VERY HAPPY AND PROPEREOUS NEW YEAR!


How many times?!

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

...Oh well, it's like I said before, one only has to read a small portion of this forum to see their true feelings about americans and especially americans that happen to be Christians. Very sorrow this view seems to dominate all the threads concerning America and those that are Christians.

What are you talking about? What is it with Christians all the time? I totally lost you there. If you think so many people are so antagonistic to Bush and his regime then there surely must be an obvious reason (or more). I dont understand how you fail to see this. Moreover, you do realise that at least 50% of your fellow countrymen are against Bush and agree with the "view [that] seems to dominate all the threads concerning America"? Just relax a little okay? No one is offending anyone. The truth is each one of us feels different about certain issues. That is not to be taken personally.

[rorythedog]

First one I have seen on this forum that talked like they had any wisdom at all of the present world conditions and based their opions on facts rather than their own warped,prejudiced views. Sounds like they only read Michael Moore's reports. They even had Bin Laden captured ready to be reported right before the election to get Bush elected. Oh well, it's like I said before, one only has to read a small portion of this forum to see their true feelings about americans and especially americans that happen to be Christians. Very sorrow this view seems to dominate all the threads concerning America and those that are Christians. Wonder how they would feel if we run their country,their political leader,their personal religion down to the level they have put ours? Well, I should have continued to keep my silence as I have in the past for it is impossible to express an opion of other people's beliefs and choices without causing friction,hurt or personal harm and that is most certainly not something I want to do. Back to SILENCE.
MERRY CHRISTMAS,EVERYONE AND HOPE EACH ONE HAS A VERY HAPPY AND PROPEREOUS NEW YEAR!

Feel free to get stuck into my government. They're almost as corrupt as yours. And get off your high horse of paranoia concerning Christians. It only comes up because your mighty leaders claim to be doing what they're doing in the name of Christianity. My country (Scotland) is predominantly Christian also, but we're not marching around bombing anybody who isn't.

Most of the alleged attackers on 11/9 were Saudis, when are you all going to invade them? Stop blaming everybody else, just because their opinion differs from your own.

[rorythedog]

And where is Bin Laden then?

[Qaz]

Wonder how they would feel if we run their country,their political leader,their personal religion down to the level they have put ours?
This goes to the very point of the whole issue. How much you know about "our" country, "our" political leaders or "our" religions? My guess is that not very much. But not because of agnorance, but because we keep our business to ourself and we don't around the world sticking our noses to other countries business.

If you haven't noticed, all the negations towards U.S. is because of your foreign policies. And I don't think nobody (on these forums anyway) dislikes U.S. citizens because of that, but it's not like we get to chat with your government.

And as Rex already asked, what's the deal with you being christian? I'm also a christian. So feel free for putting down "our" religions ;)