Jesus is back! Praise the Lord!

[rorythedog]

Thought I'd get a few opinions on this before I jump.

See the face here. (http://www.spiralupdatenews.com/)

Opinions welcome.

[drewkeller]

this is no different from seeing faces, bodies, objects, etc. in the stars. nothing new here.
that's my opinion

[madjo]

hmm I wonder how the picture would look like, with all continents still joined together. :)
nice idea, but very flawed reasoning :)

but I guess it's what you believe in that counts ;)

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

This kinda stuff is just crazy sh*t. With a bit of imagination i see faces everywhere. Or anything else for that matter. Anyone still believe there is a man in the moon? Or what about that rock lying on Mars that looks like a face? I didnt know martians looked like us, ignoring the fact there are no martians... :laugh:

Some people just wanna believe these things. I dont blame them. Hell, there are even people out there who still think the Earth is flat!

[matty28carter]

Hell, there are even people out there who still think the Earth is flat!

You mean to say it isn't flat?
:normal:

[rorythedog]

These people think it's not. - http://www.flat-earth.org/ - http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm

[jkrzok]

There's a pattern in my basement floor tile that is The Fugitive's one armed man coming to get me. I shall now worship Richard Kimball. Death to all Harrison Ford heretics. There is no god but what is embodied by David Janssen.

[rorythedog]

Lol!

[drewkeller]

These people think it's not. - http://www.flat-earth.org/ - http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm

interesting.... throw some relativism in there, and the earth can be flat if you want it to be :) the FAQ is pretty funny in a sad way. they manage to contradict themselves in several places, but of course, this is not a problem with a relativistic viewpoint.

...all assertions are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true false and meaningless in some sense.

[jkrzok]

Some years ago NPR interviewed a founder of the flat earth society. Listening to him speak I got the impression it was all an exercise in logic/philosophy rather than an honest espousal of a theory.

But then I think.

What Would Richard Kimball Say? After all, no one else believed in the one-armed man either. Is the false true? This will require some meditation.

[Todd The Kiwi]

There's a pattern in my basement floor tile that is The Fugitive's one armed man coming to get me
whoah man you have a 'one armed man tile shop' there too :cross-eye :cheeky:

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

It just cant be healthy if we were suddenly to see 'things' or 'faces' everywhere, now can it? Thank God, it's not the whole world that believes that the 'face' in the pacific ocean is intended, but just a co-incidence and a fragment of our imagination or we'd all have to see a shrink. :confused: :shocked:

[madjo]

I would happily move to Discworld ;-) but I don't believe in flat-earth :) (too much evidence to the contrary (that the world has a ball-like shape))

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

Im a great fan of the Discworld novels by Terry Pratchett. I like the wizards the most. Their arguements are splendid and so funny :) Also the whole idea that the Earth is flat and is carried on four elephants on a giant turtle flying through space is just great :cool:

[rorythedog]

Congrats! Everybody passed. No nutters here then. Phew! Actually, there was one, but he left.

It's auto-suggestion isn't it. Funnily enough, legend has it that this is how the design for the Scots flag was dreamt up. Somebody looked up and saw a "cross" formation of clouds in a light blue sky and whammo! I've seen that a few times too, but it's always vapour trails.

Haha. Writing about it made me look it up , so here's a LINK (http://www.visitscotland.com/aboutscotland/UniquelyScottish/Saltire)

Enjoy.

[ianjohnson_nz]

Thought I'd get a few opinions on this before I jump.
See the face here. (http://www.spiralupdatenews.com/)
Opinions welcome.
...then read the reviews for the book on amazon.com. I don't mean to be patronising (oh all right then, I do), and I know people are entitled to their beliefs and opinions, etc: but man, these people are allowed to VOTE.
reviews (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0965962709/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/102-7473299-8161763?%5Fencoding=UTF8&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER)

[fatal error]

i once spilled coffee on my kitchen floor and saw Elvis.

[Todd The Kiwi]

i once spilled pot in my coffee and fell on the floor :knocked-o
i've also spilled coffee in my pot and i hit the friggin roof ha ha ha :skull:

[madjo]

...then read the reviews for the book on amazon.com. I don't mean to be patronising (oh all right then, I do), and I know people are entitled to their beliefs and opinions, etc: but man, these people are allowed to VOTE.
reviews (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0965962709/ref=cm_cr_dp_2_1/102-7473299-8161763?%5Fencoding=UTF8&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
One of 'em is (allegedly) even a professor... I wouldn't want to be in his class!
:)

[rorythedog]

Glad I'm not the only one. I think they're nutters. Man, I see things every night. :bandit:

[jkrzok]

I don't think there's anything wrong in seeing a face in some random pattern of nature. We are probably genetically predisposed to see such patterns. Recognizing faces is after all an important part in a baby's development and in forming attachments to its parents. This tendency seems to be active all our lives.

It becomes an issue however when we attach some special import to such random natural patterns. I start to worship Richard Kimball after "seeing" the one armed man. Another sees the face of God in a cloud and starts a crusade, etc. These sightings are not in truth a reflection of reality; they are instead a reflection of how our minds work and nothing more.

[madjo]

Perhaps this (http://www.smh.com.au/news/Unusual-Tales/Old-sandwich-divine/2004/11/17/1100574501805.html?oneclick=true) is also interesting?

[Qaz]

Perhaps this (http://www.smh.com.au/news/Unusual-Tales/Old-sandwich-divine/2004/11/17/1100574501805.html?oneclick=true) is also interesting?
Needs registering. Want to take a screenshot?

[madjo]

hmm really? I am not logged in there... found it through google news...

hmm apparently the page is placed behind a login screen...
let me see if I can find it somewhere else...

it was about an ebay item, a pancake with the face of Holy Mary... at least they said that...


*edit* sorry can't find it any more :(

[jkrzok]

I thought it was a 10 year old piece of toast. No really. Ebay took it off thinking it was a joke but put it back on when they got religion.

[madjo]

indeed, that was the story I tried to link to :) (and if it indeed was a piece of toast, that would explain why I couldn't find it anymore)


here is the ebay page itself (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19270&item=5535890757&rd=1#ebayphotohosting)...

[Neo]

There was nowhere else to put this so this thread is relevant. This will be of no interest to people of no faith so I ask them to simply move on, this is simply thoughts for the Christians on the forum and yes they are here.

1) The King James Bible was translated into English. It was therefore changed. You can not dismiss other Bible translations and hold one up above another when they were all translated to English and the English words are different than original scripture. This is nitpicking and bullshit... Christ is not concerned about such trivial nonsense. As long as his word and meaning is kept untouched he certainly doesn't care if thy is converted into a more MODERN English word that means the same thing. (Mormons and Jehovahs on the other hand ACTUALLY CHANGE THE BIBLE and TAKE OUT STUFF, and ALTER, this would not be acceptable to God.)

2) Mary is the Mother of God, she deserves respect. If "Christians" are to walk through the gates of Heaven and be welcomed, we certainly better respect the King's mother. Protestants do not do their homework they just throw blind statements out... like they say things like to pray to Mary is to worship a false idol. The simple fact is Catholics have never put Mary above God/Jesus.

Our Blessed Virgin Mother is a great example of replacing evil with good. Catholics do not "worship" Mary. All the female pagan gods were: prideful, promiscuous, spiteful and vengeful. Mary replaced all of that with her virtues: humility, virginity,obedience to God's will. We cannot worship Mary, her humility would not allow it. She points to her Son. Devotion to Mary does not take away from Jesus, it enhances it. She brings people closer to her Son the way any good Mother would.

"Do whatever He tells you" -John 2:5-6

The Wedding Feast at Cana, the first public miracle performed by our Lord at the REQUEST of His Mother. In fact, he was almost hesitant but because of Her intercession he proceeded. Mary still goes before her Son on behalf of her friends, and even on behalf of people like you (protestants), who do not give her the respect God wills you to.

1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ. 1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel's royal monarchy. The Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.

Protestant churches... they're just gathering, not worshiping like Catholics. Jesus started the Catholic church, Peter was the first pope. Guess Peter's going to hell!? If the Catholic church was the first church, and Christ said that there is one true church, the only church in existance is the Catholic church. Some people need to figure out what Catholicism is about before they slander it.

At an inter faith conference a very boastful (well known) preacher was introduced to a very humble Catholic priest. The preacher arrogantly said "Nice to meet you, I am from the Church that follows the TRUE Bible" to which the priest humbly replied "Nice to meet you too, I am from the true Church that wrote that Bible."

The Catholic Church has been thriving for over 2000 years. Others have come and gone, thou it still remains. What gets me about many protestants is the way they make accusations with nothing to back it up. The teachings of the Catholic Church apparently contradict what Jesus said but The Church was founded by Jesus, all the others that came 1500 years later, were founded by men. BIG DIFFERENCE.

A little research and an open mind will help unblind.

[Willow of Oz]

The Catholic Church has been thriving for over 2000 years. Others have come and gone, thou it still remains. What gets me about many protestants is the way they make accusations with nothing to back it up. The teachings of the Catholic Church apparently contradict what Jesus said but The Church was founded by Jesus, all the others that came 1500 years later, were founded by men. BIG DIFFERENCE.
A little research and an open mind will help unblind.

Well, since you can't deny that every head of the church since has been merely a man, then I don't see much difference between the Catholic Church and, say, the Protestant Church.
Do you believe that a Protestant Minister is actually less devout to his god than the Catholic Priest is to his god?
Do they not both read from the same book?

For a history of the Catholic Church and its leaders...
"During one particularly grim period from 882 to 1046, there were 37 popes, some of whom served only a few weeks."

" Leo V (903), for instance, had been pope for only a month before being imprisoned and tortured by one Christophorus, who then enthroned himself. Both men were killed in 904 on the orders of Pope Sergius III (904-911)."

Now I'm not actually trying to denigrate the CC here, but I don't see how they are any more divinely run than other churches considering they are all led by men (who profess to being led by god).

[Shewolf]

Is this a fun 'everything else' thread or a damn religion thread?
If its one for religion it should surely be in the religious (politics and news..should have religion in the name imo) section.

[Willow of Oz]

Is this a fun 'everything else' thread or a damn religion thread?
If its one for religion it should surely be in the religious (politics and news..should have religion in the name imo) section.

well, it has a name that implies that it's a religious thread. I'm willing to take it as such.

[BALTY]

Wow Neo that's powerful.
I'm thinking you are just pointing out that the "bashing" of the Catholic Church is unjustified. Not that the average protestant Church doesn't equally believe in Jesus.

I'm Catholic, and I think this is well spoken.
And in reading your piece, I personally don't see that you are bad-mouthing Protestants themselves, just those Protestants that bad-mouth the Catholics. Or should I say...at least pointing out their possible flaw in their holier than thou stance, that some seem to swagger.
Cool if that's what it's meant to be. Are you Catholic? I didn't know it if you are.

I actually laugh inside as I hear protestants tell me I'm practicing Christianity wrong. I don't usually give them a serious notion of me being offended, or of them being correct. I'll listen, then just go about my business. If I do say something, it's just low key. I think they mean well, but they are protesting the Catholics by their very foundation. So since I'm not trying to say I'm holier then they, I just smile.
'Cause every man has his/her free will. If God's will was forced upon ya like in some countries today, then how much of that is 'cause ya hafta believe, and how much is 'cause ya wanta?

I do feel at one point in Catholic history, it was forced upon ya. In those trying times things such as what Ozzy pointed out, happens. Kings got involved, power as given to the high priests, such as in the Muslim world (some countries) today.

I think God wants the wanta believer’s!
And Yes, Mary is believed to be in heaven, and just like the wedding friends of hers back then, today we ask Mary to help nudge Jesus to help us! We don't pray to her, but through her. This is a no no for most Protestants. Whatever~

Edit:
Here I am sounding like I know it all! hehehe!
Go Go Knights of Columbus!! yeah!

[fatal error]

ahhh you've got to admire religion......the first organized crime.

[Neo]

Is this a fun 'everything else' thread or a damn religion thread?
If its one for religion it should surely be in the religious (politics and news..should have religion in the name imo) section.
You know if I started a NEW thread about this in another section, I probably would have received complaints either way. No?

I stated in my post it was not meant for people of no faith so simply "move along". This particular thread that had Jesus in the title (I did a search it was the ONLY one) had not been commented on in 2 years! It only made sense for me to use it, and I did not want to have this in an all out religion thread as this is not religion. Christianity is not a "religion".

[Neo]

Willow, just answer me this first... are you Catholic or Protestant?
If you are not Christian, than any response I provide is irrelevant.

[fatal error]

any belief that is forced on a populace at the end of a spear or at gunpoint IS a religion. christianity falls nicely into this category.

[Neo]

Indeed, Balty! You are right, it's mostly a shout out to the arrogance of protestants who are basically "protesting" against Jesus. I'm sure protestants have a love for Jesus and everything not doubting their faith, it's how they go about it and how they say uninformed things.

[Neo]

any belief that is forced on a populace at the end of a spear or at gunpoint IS a religion. christianity falls nicely into this category.
It's not forced, when was the last time a Christian forced or tried to force you to follow Jesus? Please note Jehovah's Witness are not Christians. Christianity is NOT a religion, it is a relationship that each individual chooses for themselves through knowledge, study, prayer, etc.

[fatal error]

It's not forced, when was the last time a Christian forced or tried to force you to follow Jesus? Please note Jehovah's Witness are not Christians. Christianity is NOT a religion, it is a relationship.

tell that to the native americans.

[Neo]

Humans make mistakes, same goes for Crusades... this is not an act through Christ. It is what happens when satan influences. It is not of God.

[fatal error]

Humans make mistakes, same goes for Crusades... this is not an act through Christ. It is what happens when satan influences. It is not of God.

ahh yes satan.....turn to the satan argument. cast blame on outside influence instead taking credit for your own actions. nice argument. convenient as well.

[Neo]

I'm not saying what they did should be overlooked, simply that if you're saying these things were an act of God, you would be wrong. Same goes for people like Benny Hinn who trick people into thinking he can cure them and perform miracles on a stage. He makes millions off of gullible people. This man is not acting on behalf of Christ/God.

There is no satan argument, if you have any knowledge of these issues you will know of his influence on the world yesterday and today. This is why we need Christ, it's simple. Trickery... it's what satan is all about.

Hating "religion" or Christians because of some Human acts that disgusted you is wrong. If you know the reason for Christ, the reason for his birth, the reason for his death then maybe you would understand.

FORGIVENESS... Not forgiving is what satan would prefer.

With all due respect Fatal... if you do know these things but just wish to deny them, that is your choice and FREEWILL to do so (I respect that as does God since he gave it to us) but I fail to see why you respond to this thread if for only to be negative against Christians?

[fatal error]

I'm not saying what they did should be overlooked, simply that if you're saying these things were an act of God, you would be wrong. Same goes for people like Benny Hinn who trick people into thinking he can cure them and perform miracles on a stage. He makes millions off of gullible people. This man is not acting on behalf of Christ/God.

There is no satan argument, if you have any knowledge of these issues you will know of his influence on the world yesterday and today. This is why we need Christ, it's simple. Trickery... it's what satan is all about.

Hating "religion" or Christians because of some Human acts that disgusted you is wrong. If you know the reason for Christ, the reason for his birth, the reason for his death then maybe you would understand.

With all due respect Fatal... if you do know these things but just wish to deny them, that is your choice and FREEWILL to do so (I respect that as does God) but I fail to see why you respond to this thread if for only to be negative against Christians?

i'm against belief in any organized religion that endorced or took part in violence against their fellow man no matter what name it calls itself.

Freewill is exactly why the satan argument does not hold water. Influence or not, people have a choice. It doesnt matter if it's satan or barney or jesus....

[Neo]

I'm waiting for his answer, from what I've known about him he is neither Catholic nor Protestant. Therefore if this is true he really should not be getting involved.

If I am wrong and he IS protestant, great. I'm not here to bash protestants, just lay down some Truths.

[Neo]

Freewill is exactly why the satan argument does not hold water. Influence or not, people have a choice. It doesnt matter if it's satan or barney or jesus....
Yes, they have a choice. But and this is where you don't understand, man can make a choice but often those choices can be influenced by satan, everything nasty that goes on in this world, greed, hate, war, crime, etc.. you name it you can bet satan is behind it in terms of influencing humanity to do his work. He wants your soul, he wants you to deny Jesus Christ and give up your eternity since he has none himself.

[fatal error]

Yes, they have a choice. But and this is where you don't understand, man can make a choice but often those choices can be influenced by satan, everything nasty that goes on in this world, greed, hate, war, crime, etc.. you name it you can bet satan is behind it in terms of influencing humanity to do his work. He wants your soul, he wants you to deny Jesus Christ and give up your eternity since he has none himself.

I understand fully. My point still remains.....influence is everywhere you look. The responsibility still falls on the individual.

[Neo]

Certainly the individual is responsible... but the influence they allow remains.

[BALTY]

I hate to bring up potential trouble. However I think this thread is OK. We talk of politics(which is equally dangerous), and other news, opinions. I hope others including you NEO don't get upset to a point that you lash out. That goes for me, Sheebs, Woods, Roj, Rory, whoever it may be.

It is interesting to hear other thought provoking ideas and stances on this subject, but keep it all in prospective please. All.

My thoughts looking from an outside angle certainly sees your point fatal. But just because it's "organized" doesn't make it a force on anyone. Just because a history of certain bad decisions doesn't make for that of which it really stands for. Just because there is a thread about Christianity doesn't make it force upon anyone. It does cause quite a ruckus anytime it's brought up. Why is that? It must provoke purely by its Existence. If so than it must matter to you one way or another. Deep down you must want to know more. Deep down you must care.
Otherwise just don't read it if it bothers you to much. The same goes for "if isn't interesting".
Just like a lot of threads I don't even click onto based on the title. Just doesn’t apply to my interest so I click on something else.

I only suggest to keep it cool. You have all the right in the world to question anything typed here, and throw out your comments towards these ideas.

When I say keep it cool, I mean for the benefit of all parties, you included.

You = anyone reading this.

[Neo]

Exactly. I'm not here to create enemies, only discuss and maybe help people open their minds and think outside the box, outside science. Certainly things get heated at times but as long as we can step back and chill and not get into name calling or anger then it's all good.

I avoid most political threads because they don't interest me, and I find my stance on some of the issues will only inflame some individuals so it's best to not even bother. I was once invited into a political thread simply because a user here wanted to draw me into it I guess to expose my stance and then flame me, but I did not take the bait.

I do like posting on Canadian politics and the current gov't (which i support) I've had many discussions on it between Roj, myself and acushla... at one point it got nasty which is certainly not good but I try to respect the other opinions.

[squeege2]

As soon as i saw this, I had fears for anyone, south of the equater!

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q15/SQTOU2/faceui.png

Then I realized....:nervous: not for real.:silly:


Heh? Am I seeing this right?

[fatal error]

i wasnt aware of any heated discussion here.

just free expression of opinions.

[Lich]

Cthulhu fhtagn! I see Him sleeping in that ocean.

[BALTY]

As soon as i saw this, I had fears for anyone, south of the equater!

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q15/SQTOU2/faceui.png

Then I realized....:nervous: not for real.:silly:


Heh? Am I seeing this right?
Is that you REX? or T-REX?

[Todd The Kiwi]

hail barney.

[busty]

What I never understood about Catholicism is why do Catholics pray to anyone other than God? Is he too busy? Or doesn't he care? That doesn't fit into the omnipotent all-caring God I thought even Catholics had?

And if one does pray to a Saint, are they in any sort of position to help? Or do they merely then turn around and ask God to provide the help? And if so, then why the middleman? I thought everyone had a personal relationship with God if they chose to have one. Surely that relationship extends to asking Him for a hand?

I surely hope that a Catholic can see how this emphasis on the Saints can be seen as a form of idolatry. It sure does look as though Catholics are turning to someone other than God for aid and comfort.

Afterall, when Jesus was asked by His disciples how best to pray he answered "Our Father..." Not "Hail, Mary."

[Shewolf]

Our Blessed Virgin Mother is a great example of replacing evil with good. Catholics do not "worship" Mary. All the female pagan gods were: prideful, promiscuous, spiteful and vengeful. Mary replaced all of that with her virtues: humility, virginity,obedience to God's will. We cannot worship Mary, her humility would not allow it.



Can i just say i find that offensive!
It is utter UTTER bullshit.

The Pagan goddesses are a mix, but none are evil or 'bad'.
They each support different area in life and peple are drawn to different goddesses.
Many of them are conencted to being the mother figure and bring joy and light and comfort.
They are good and powerful beings and i pity you your narrow minded delusions.

They were around long before this 'mary' the christians 'found' btw.

Below i include some links on a selection of the Goddesses.


Some info on The White Goddess and named dieties (http://www.thewhitegoddess.co.uk/goddess/index.asp)

Brigid (http://www.firetree.net/wheel/Brighid/brigantia.html)

Freyja/Frigga/Freya (http://www.valkyrietower.com/freyja.html)


Nuit (http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/bldefnuit.htm)

Ceres (http://www.thaliatook.com/ceres.html)

Epona (http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/celticpanth/p/epona.htm)

[Sheepeh]

Oh, save me Jeebus!

I think there should be a rule on Religion threads that any statement such as Neo's "Pagan Goddesses are bad" should be backed up by a source, or else written as an opinion, e.g "I think Pagan Goddesses are bad". The source of inflamation isn't so much *what* your ideas are, rather *how* you express them. I think we've been down this road before - go in to the Pub of Roj and say that and watch the Pagans reaction...methinks you would be vacating the premises.

Personally, I'm with Fatal on this one and tbh I couldn't give a monkey's what you guys want to believe, it's your life - do what makes you happy...it's only bible-thumpers and zealots that get my goat.

[Shewolf]

Oh, save me Jeebus!

I think there should be a rule on Religion threads that any statement such as Neo's "Pagan Goddesses are bad" should be backed up by a source, or else written as an opinion,

The opinion is offensive and can go take a hike, i dont want to see it. I don't stride into specifically christian threads and have a go at god.
I just don't want to stumble onto this in a general forum.

And opinions like that can't be backed up, so yeah i'd like to see this too.

[Willow of Oz]

Willow, just answer me this first... are you Catholic or Protestant?
If you are not Christian, than any response I provide is irrelevant.
Apologies for the lateness of my reply: time differences and all that.
Correct, I'm an atheist. My family history is Protestant*. In fact I was going to add that as a disclaimer on my first post but then decided it wasn't worth it.
I don't see why any response should be irrelevant. I thought my questions were actually on topic given your post and I wanted to know what differences you see between the churches given they are both run by men.

*direct from Ireland I should add, for those of you aware of the Catholic/Protestant divide there.


I dont want to see it. I don't stride into specifically christian threads and have a go at god.
I just don't want to stumble onto this in a general forum.


But arguably it's posted in a thread with Jesus in the title, so it's fair to assume there's going to be christian content...

[BALTY]

Yes, Ozzy your comment and questions are welcome. So is Shewolf's response appropriate. I flew through parts of the initial post. A direct hit to the pegans was delivered, and I didn't catch that. I was directing my focus on Mary, as it pertains to Catholicism.
busty, what can I say. We believe what we believe. You non Catholics hog up the prayer waves I guess, so we need to go to an open ear closest to God.:cross-eye ;)

[Willow of Oz]

What I never understood about Catholicism is why do Catholics pray to anyone other than God? Is he too busy? Or doesn't he care? That doesn't fit into the omnipotent all-caring God I thought even Catholics had?

And if one does pray to a Saint, are they in any sort of position to help? Or do they merely then turn around and ask God to provide the help? And if so, then why the middleman? I thought everyone had a personal relationship with God if they chose to have one. Surely that relationship extends to asking Him for a hand?


Well, my protestant family also talk about praying to the saint of xxx for things (eg lost items - Saint Anthony??). I never got that one either.

[BALTY]

and I wanted to know what differences you see between the churches given they are both run by men.

Yes, men! Can live with'm can't live.....
Maybe you aren't asking me directly. Jesus was man too. What he's saying is that it (Catholicism) all started with Peter. One of the 12 of course. Reenforce on a secondary generation with Paul (not one of the 12). But Christian Bible study isn't the deal here. I'm just saying the he's was stating how it was Protestants whom had split off from Catholic ways. A splinter group of you will.

In more to the point of yours:
Men can steer the machine askew over time. Point well taken.

NEO are you a Catholic?


But arguably it's posted in a thread with Jesus in the title, so it's fair to assume there's going to be christian content...
Hear here!

SHEWOLF: Yes yours IS older!

[BALTY]

and I wanted to know what differences you see between the churches given they are both run by men.

Yes, men! Can't live with'm, can't live.....
Maybe you aren't asking me directly but, Jesus was man too. What he's saying is that it (Catholicism) all started with Peter. One of the 12 of course. Reinforce on a secondary generation with Paul (not one of the 12). But Christian Bible study isn't the deal here. I'm just saying the he was stating how it was Protestants whom had split off from the Catholic Church. A splinter group of you will. So with this in mind: "think twice to who you are trying to conform".

In more to the point of yours:
Men can steer the machine askew over time. Point well taken.

NEO are you a Catholic?



But arguably it's posted in a thread with Jesus in the title, so it's fair to assume there's going to be Christian content...
Hear here!

OH, AND SHEWOLF: Yes yours IS older! Good point.

[Todd The Kiwi]

i'm itching to lock this.

neo - shut the fuck up, again

[Willow of Oz]

i'm itching to lock this.

neo - shut the fuck up, again

Nope, it's all on topic so let it run. I see no problem here.

[BALTY]

i'm itching to lock this.

neo - shut the fuck up, again
Now Todd! U:devil: ;)

[Willow of Oz]

Please note Jehovah's Witness are not Christians.


According to Jehovah's Witnesses:
The entire Biblical canon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon#Orthodox.2C_Catholic_and_Protestant ), excluding the Apocrypha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha), is considered the inspired word of God
They believe in a God with a son Jesus
... what more can you want?

It does bring up the issue of categorization. I mean if some group claim to be X, then who is to say otherwise? Are they not what they claim to be?


Christianity is NOT a religion, it is a relationship that each individual chooses for themselves through knowledge, study, prayer, etc.


From wikipedia:

Religion may be defined as the presence of a belief in the sacred or the holy.

Religion is a system of social coherence based on a common group of beliefs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief) or attitudes concerning an object, person, unseen being, or system of thought considered to be supernatural (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural), sacred (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred), divine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine) or highest truth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma), and the moral codes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_code), practices, values, institutions, traditions, and rituals associated with such belief or system of thought.

[Todd The Kiwi]

hardly on topic, rory saw a cornflake the shape of god
probably while he was stoned out of his mind [fair enough] :apple:

[Neo]

i'm itching to lock this.

neo - shut the fuck up, again
There is NO freedom here under your rules, but this is not your forum! It's funny how we can not discuss these issues, nobody is getting hurt here yet you find reason to tell me to "shut the fuck up" and you want to lock the thread. Is there no freedom to discuss catholic/protestant issues here? Do you enjoy autocratic rule or just being a dictator? This is not the first time you have done this either, other moderators have found you guilty of this bullshit.

The sooner Paul removes your power to lock threads the better this whole forum will be! I will not shut the fuck up, I am not hurting anyone, but please close the thread so you can demonstrate to the forum what a dumbass you are but many people here already know that!

If anyone here wants Todd's moderator status removed please send a private message to Paul regarding this. Paul knows what Todd has done over the years, he's almost out of strikes.

[Neo]

hardly on topic, rory saw a cornflake the shape of god
probably while he was stoned out of his mind [fair enough] :apple:
Yeah... and if I was to start a NEW topic in a proper forum... like you'd leave that alone?

[Neo]

Can i just say i find that offensive!
It is utter UTTER bullshit.
I apologize. I will look into your links.

[BALTY]

I apologize. I will look into your links.
That a boy!
Mighty sporting of ya!;)

Oh and Todd, Aren't you the stealthy one these dayz!~

[Neo]

Something else to add... if Paul wishes to induce a "no religious/christian talk" rule forum-wide, I will abide by it or most likely leave the forum completely as this is a form of censorship that I do not agree with, but until then I have not done anything wrong and I am not here to hurt anyone.

[Todd The Kiwi]

That a boy!
Mighty sporting of ya!;)

Oh and Todd, Aren't you the stealthy one these dayz!~uh huh, yeah that's an in joke, isn't it what? i mean balty...

go team neo :heart:

[idefiXX]

Something else to add... if Paul wishes to induce a "no religious/christian talk" rule forum-wide, I will abide by it or most likely leave the forum completely as this is a forum of censorship that I do not agree with, but until then I have not done anything wrong and I am not here to hurt anyone.
I don't know if you noticed, but this forum has a new name now :
"News, Politics & Religion"
Censorship ? Doesn't look like that. And that's good !

[Rex_Mundi_Incarnit]

I don't know if you noticed, but this forum has a new name now :
"News, Politics & Religion"
Censorship ? Doesn't look like that. And that's good !

Yes, I specifically requested this on behalf of Shewolf. Anyone not interested in getting involved in a religious debate and politics can now avoid this forum. Now lets not get carried away like last time or I'll have to close this thread. Anyone still feeling insulted, take it up with us moderators and avoid continuing another flame war.

Thank you.

Carry on...

[WHAT?]

uh huh, yeah that's an in joke, isn't it what? i mean balty...

go team neo :heart:
Huh?
Why's this guy dragging me into this. I've been Switzerland!:hurt:

[BALTY]

You'd know more than I since it's first hand just by you being there, ever so close. But I look at that as just being a good fan of the opposing team. Now, I draw the line at throwing things down onto the field, fighting in the stands, or killing people!:normal:
Nice to see our christian brothers turn the other cheek eh?:cheeky:

[squeege2]

Wow, I truly didn't expect that crowds reaction. Perhaps we are too sheltered or afraid to check these things out. Not somthing I would choose to Google anyway. But you know,to me ,that has little to do with religeous beleif. I don't think any religion would condone any form of racism.......simply using it as an excuse for their bigotry. IMHO

[WHAT?]

Here, they make the "sign of the cross" (as it's refered to) at the drop of a hat.
I mean, in pro basketball someone's always signing just before a foul shot. Or in pro American football, look to the heavens and point after they score, thanking the Big Guy in the Sky! That's actually looked dear upon here. It shows their humbleness and humility of themselves. A higher power if you will, that had given them the opportunity to even be able to compete at that level.
So no, no one here thinks badly of that at all ! Except the atheist of course. But who cares about them? They can go to hell!(sarc)
:cheeky: :silly: :)

[squeege2]

Why would that be labled a "Catholic" thing anyway....

Do Protestants "cross"?

[BALTY]

Why would that be labled a "Catholic" thing anyway....

Do Protestants "cross"?
As far as I see around me, Christians "Cross".
Baptists, Episcopols, Methodists, Lutherans, Branch Davidians etc.
I'm assuming you are saying "sign of the Cross". That goalie did it so fast that I couldn't tell what he was doing. I would have been more pronounced.
I also would never have expected that reaction anywhere in Western Europe! After all, that's where our heritage came from.

EDIT: I was talking to some people the other day about this subject.
Yes, there are those Christians who do not "Cross"! But some Protestants that do.
How many Protestants are there here who don't, and didn't pipe in to correct me?:nervous:
Oh Well My bad. There are so many that do though, so I'm not technically totally wrong.

... and how many Branch Davidians are there around anyway?:ponder:

[Neo]

According to Jehovah's Witnesses:
The entire Biblical canon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon#Orthodox.2C_Catholic_and_Protestant ), excluding the Apocrypha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocrypha), is considered the inspired word of God
They believe in a God with a son Jesus
... what more can you want?

Do you know that they have released their own Bible version. This is the difference, have you heard of the "Morman" Bible? This is blasphemous in the eyes of God. These groups (and there are more out there) have changed the word of God and in some cases took out sections mostly to benefit their own ideas. If you know what God says about this then you will know these groups are not "true" Christians and in fact are destined for a dark eternity if they don't get out of their cults, and these are in fact cults I was amazed at what I learned about Jehovah's... pretty creepy. This is something Protestants can agree with me on!

Anyways back to the Bible tranlations... there is an extreme viewpoint of this to which I disagree. The view is that there's only 1 true Bible, the King James version.. and they will try and tell you that every other "translation" (note I said "translation" not version) is wrong and blasphemous. What makes this crazy is the simple fact that the King James Bible was ALSO translated into English at one point and therefore has also been translated.

Translation is not the problem,.. there's a PROTESTant that did not like to discuss these issues with me as anything I said to him was basically falling on deaf ears. I was hopeless and useless in his eyes, which bothers me. I think maybe because I am younger and my way of expression can be different than his, he made me feel put down like I wasn't a Christian because I didn't meet his expectations. I just wish he was open to chatting with me more instead I felt cut off. Christians should not cut off other Christians even if they don't agree on everything.

I won't lump every PROTESTant into this but they are often very arrogant in what they say and I find that funny since the one true Church is Catholic!


From wikipedia:

Religion may be defined as the presence of a belief in the sacred or the holy.
Sure it's a "Religion" in that definition, but my point with Christianity not being a religion is that to many Christians it is in fact a relationship not a religion.

With all that said... MERRY CHRISTMAS to all!!! (even the protestants!) :biggrin:

[Willow of Oz]

Do you know that they have released their own Bible version. This is the difference, have you heard of the "Morman" Bible? This is blasphemous in the eyes of God. These groups (and there are more out there) have changed the word of God and in some cases took out sections mostly to benefit their own ideas. If you know what God says about this then you will know these groups are not "true" Christians and in fact are destined for a dark eternity if they don't get out of their cults, and these are in fact cults I was amazed at what I learned about Jehovah's... pretty creepy. This is something Protestants can agree with me on!

Anyways back to the Bible tranlations... there is an extreme viewpoint of this to which I disagree. The view is that there's only 1 true Bible, the King James version.. and they will try and tell you that every other "translation" (note I said "translation" not version) is wrong and blasphemous. What makes this crazy is the simple fact that the King James Bible was ALSO translated into English at one point and therefore has also been translated.

Ah, but of note here, the bible is actually composed of a number of books. These books were written. At some (much) later date, a group of people made the decision as to which ones were actual inspired writings from god and which ones were not. The selected books were then collated. So you have the old testament, which many believe are god's word. Then you have the new testament, which some fewer believe is god's word. And then you have other documents (the dead sea scrolls?) which even fewer believe is also god's word. The JW's belong to the last group, and basically include all the books written around this time. Who made the decision for the Catholic church as to which books made the cut and which ones did not?
So even before the bible was translated it was compiled from multiple sources, long after those sources were written.

[traveller]

Who made the decision for the Catholic church as to which books made the cut and which ones did not?

According to Dan Brown (The Da Vinci Code) that was a group of proto-Catholics assembled by the (pagan) Roman Emperor Constantine early in the fourth century AD. While many of Brown's claims will not bear the light of close scrutiny, much of the underlying history is solid.

[WHAT?]

Well, my protestant family also talk about praying to the saint of xxx for things (eg lost items - Saint Anthony??). I never got that one either.
I swear Ozzy... this one works for me!!! Funny that you brought up the ONE that I swear by. I use it sparingly (I'm just that way, as to not over use something... It's just me). But this one has worked miraculously (mysteriously for you non-believers) and I can't believe how well sometimes, even though I live it all the time. Of course just by saying it can't possible justify the depth of how far gone (or hopeless) the case of finding something so important to me. The only times it hasn't worked is when it all boiled down to having remembering that I had left the item or whatever I lost (could be a non-item ), somewhere out in the open, or on the roof of my car, and had driven off.
Even in some of those cases you'd be amazed, but you can't expect these cases to turn up all lost items. At least I don't. But, you could make the case that St. Anthony help me remember where I went wrong, that it was my fault. So I suck it up , move on in those cases.

All I can really say to you ... My relationship with my religion is unique, and personal.

Keep the faith baby!!

[squeege2]

Ah, but of note here, the bible is actually composed of a number of books. These books were written. At some (much) later date, a group of people made the decision as to which ones were actual inspired writings from god and which ones were not. The selected books were then collated. So you have the old testament, which many believe are god's word. Then you have the new testament, which some fewer believe is god's word. And then you have other documents (the dead sea scrolls?) which even fewer believe is also god's word. The JW's belong to the last group, and basically include all the books written around this time. Who made the decision for the Catholic church as to which books made the cut and which ones did not?
So even before the bible was translated it was compiled from multiple sources, long after those sources were written.

I totally agree here. In fact, and in my opinion, translation begins, simply by choosing which books were to be used ,as " GOD'S" word.

[squeege2]

As far as I see around me, Christians "Cross".
Baptists, Episcopols, Methodists, Lutherans, Branch Davidians etc.
I'm assuming you are saying "sign of the Cross". That goalie did it so fast that I couldn't tell what he was doing. I would have been more pronounced.
I also would never have expected that reaction anywhere in Western Europe! After all, that's where our heritage came from.

EDIT: I was talking to some people the other day about this subject.
Yes, there are those Christians who do not "Cross"! But some Protestants that do.
How many Protestants are there here who don't, and didn't pipe in to correct me?:nervous:
Oh Well My bad. There are so many that do though, so I'm not technically totally wrong.

... and how many Branch Davidians are there around anyway?:ponder:

Sorry, I probably should have said, "all christians", instead of "protestants". But you have answered my question, thanks Balty. I was not aware of this, and was totaly confused on usage of this sign. In our area, I personally, have only seen Catholics use it in their evryday life. Strange I thought that....Yes?

[WHAT?]

Some of you may agree with only parts of this, some of you, none. I personally can relate to all of it. But... Thought you might enjoy this interesting prayer given in Kansas at the opening session
of their Senate.
It seems prayer still upsets some people.
When Minister Joe Wright was asked to open
the new session of the Kansas Senate,
everyone was expecting the usual
generalities, but this is
what they heard: ...

'Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask
your forgiveness and to seek your direction and
guidance. We know Your Word says, 'Woe to those
who call evil good,' but that is exactly what we
have done.

We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed
our values.

We have exploited the poor and called it
the lottery.

We have rewarded laziness and called it
welfare

We have killed our unborn and called it
choice.

We have shot abortionists and called it
justifiable.

We have neglected to discipline our
children, and called it building self esteem..

We have abused power and called it
politics.

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions
and called it ambition.

We have polluted the air with profanity and
pornography, and called it freedom of expression.

We have ridiculed the time-honored values
of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts
today; cleanse us from every sin, and set us free.
Amen!'


The response was immediate. A number of
legislators walked out during the prayer in
protest. In 6 short weeks, Central Christian
Church, where Rev. Wright is pastor, logged more than
5,000 phone calls with only 47 of those calls
responding negatively. The church is now receiving
international requests for copies of this prayer
from India, Africa, and Korea.

[Willow of Oz]

It's actually mostly true.
Only one person walked out, and the actual prayer was worded a little differently, but the gist is true.

[squeege2]

Perhaps there were some guilty feelings, amongst the ones who walked. he he hhmmm.
One question though....at the end it says "cleanse us from every sin, and set us free. Amen!" Doesn't "cleansing" happen after one dies? If you sin, is one not responsible untill the day of reckoning? Or can one be forgiven, ie confessions, so that one can go out and sin again....or whatever? Being non religeous, I seriously do not grasp this concept very well.

....Or perhaps I am confused....

[Solon]

Perhaps there were some guilty feelings, amongst the ones who walked. he he hhmmm.
One question though....at the end it says "cleanse us from every sin, and set us free. Amen!" Doesn't "cleansing" happen after one dies? If you sin, is one not responsible untill the day of reckoning? Or can one be forgiven, ie confessions, so that one can go out and sin again....or whatever? Being non religeous, I seriously do not grasp this concept very well.

....Or perhaps I am confused....

Basically you can be forgiven for your sins at any point (in Christianity), you can then sin again but you can still be forgiven... you just have to ask really.

[Todd The Kiwi]

i believe they used to pre-bless knights during the crusades etc :cross-eye